Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A discrepancy exists between my local law enforcement and I about purchasing a w. hognose snake from Florida. Do you as a Florida breeder have to possess a type III permit to sell or ship one?

thanks KR
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Thank you,
Kevin Rhodes

You have to have a possess and sale permit to sell anything. It's called a liscense to sell or exhibit class 111 wildlife...thanks
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Do you as a Florida breeder have to possess a type III permit to sell or ship one?

68A-6.0022 Possession of Class I, II, or III Wildlife in Captivity: Permit Requirements.
(1) Permits to possess wildlife in captivity, issued pursuant to Section 379.3761 or 379.3762, F.S., and the provisions of this chapter, shall authorize the keeping of captive wildlife, of the type and number specified in applications approved by the Commission, in accordance with law and Commission rules. Captive wildlife maintained under permit shall, unless otherwise authorized, be maintained only at the facility specified in the permit application and approved by the Commission.
(2) No permit shall be required to possess the following wildlife for personal use, unless possession of a species is otherwise regulated by other rules of the Commission:
(a) Reptiles or amphibians (nonvenomous, unprotected)

What this is saying is you do need a Class III license in FLorida for commercial use.

Here is the requirements for a Class III license pre FWC Rule 68A-6.0022.

(4) No permit shall be issued to any person to possess Class III wildlife for exhibition, sale or personal use unless such person can meet the following requirements:
(a) Be 16 years of age or older.
(b) Application for permits to possess Class III wildlife for personal use shall include the satisfactory completion of a questionnaire developed by the Commission that assesses the applicant’s knowledge of general husbandry, nutritional, and behavioral characteristics. Such information shall be documented on the Personal Use Application and Questionnaire form FWCDLE_621 (01/07), which is adopted and incorporated herein by reference. Forms may be obtained by submitting a request to: Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, Division of Law Enforcement, 620 South Meridian Street, Tallahassee, Florida 32399-1600, or at www.myfwc.com/permits.

Hope this helps,
Greg Graziani
(863)465-2228
www.GrazianiReptiles.com

...for the info
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Thank you,
Kevin Rhodes

Go ahead Greg, just because I'm technologically retarded you have to show it to the world.LOL...TO BE POLITICALLY CORRECT I SHOULD HAVE SAID "TECHNOLOGICALLY IMPAIRED"...Sigh, but it is the truth...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Just trying to help. You know how difficult it is to find the laws let alone figure out what they mean! We have both spent just a little bit of time researching this, haven't we? Still you have forgotten more than I will probably ever know.

Talk to you soon,
Greg
http://www.grazianireptiles.com/

Greg, when you, Nigel, Shawn, your son, and I went snakehunting that weekend you picked by brain and it only took you 5 minutes so I don't know...lol
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Dear Tom, Mr. Graziani

You have been "in the game" for many years and you seem to have talked to many respected and influential people in american herpetoculture. You also seem to have read your share of AR legislation proposals.. anything new about the ar bills of today as opposed to those proposed 20-30 years ago im the US?
Bad bans popping out at regular intervals in the US seems to be normal im my experience, how long has is been like this?

Also..
Back home I recently found an AR activist who founded a non profit organization in a third country and is at the moment gathering donations to pay a lawyer to make sure that the conservation project recieves the propper government funding.
When funding is in place a reptile park/hotel will be build near the coast and the nonprofit organization who owns the reptile park will also be mostly in charge of a local endangered turtle protection initiative.
This will also serve as an educational and conference center, I suspect a place where AR friends can go on vacation to make a difference, meet like minded tourists and leave tourist money in the hands of an exotic like minded organization. It will also be a source of expert oppinion to the relevant country.
how to adress something like this? Is is even possible to do anything about?

kind regards
obeligz

" AR legislation proposals.. anything new about the ar bills of today as opposed to those proposed 20-30 years ago im the US?
Bad bans popping out at regular intervals in the US seems to be normal im my experience, how long has is been like this? "

There's nothing new it's all the same recycled ideas.

The big difference is the media attention and the fact that activist groups have gotten smarter and more diversified. Activist groups can quickly spread their lie filled propaganda turning non issues into big story's. What used to be a one paragraph piece on the back page of some local news paper is now a National headline.

Today these groups have the pull to get things passed that used to get tossed in the waste can. The reptile industry has been very blind to this fact.

Reptiles have always gotten the least attention. Now that they've become more mainstream their seeing the same kinds of pressure that other segments of the pet trade have been seeing for decades. Reptiles aren't being picked on like all the people that are new to ownership issues seem to think . It`s closer to the truth to say reptiles have just reached the point to where their getting noticed .

Ernie Eison
WESTWOD ACRES REPTILE FARM INC.

Thank you for sharing.
You give an overview and basic information but as I don´t live there it´s hard to form an opinion.. What is your experience with this piece of legislation? Does it work well? are there any problem areas?

The more I read about this the more skeptical I get, parts of the Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission website seem like direct translations from junk published on the website of the Norwegian Food safety Authority.

"Camels, llamas, wild horses, jungle fowl, common guinea fowl and peafowl are considered domestic/domesticated species and do not require a permit."

- http://myfwc.com/RULESANDREGS/Rules_CaptiveCategories.htm

What is jungle fowl? tropical birds?

"Class I wildlife are those that pose a significant danger to people. Substantial experience and specific cage requirements must be met.

Permits are required for public exhibition or sale of Class I wildlife. "

How does the FWC define "significant danger"?

"D. Class II Wildlife

Class II wildlife can also pose a danger to people. Substantial experience and specific cage requirements must be met. Permits are required for public exhibition, sale or personal possession of Class II wildlife. "

How does the FWC differentiate between "significant danger" and "danger"?

regards
oby

Jungle Fowl are the wild form of domestic chickens and in fact resemble Bantam Chickens almost exactly and are wild all over S.E. ASIA...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

And if the Colonel cooked them, he would be a General!
LOL!

Randal

I'm beginnig to resemble the Colonel with my white hair....lol...plus I like chicken...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

General of the flock of domesic wild chickens, that sounds sweet! lol ^_^
You need a permit for that?

I can see it now, a chain of Colonel Crutchfield's Fried Chicken!

RB

I beg you pardon?!?
Crutchfield´s chickens are not just gonna sit around dreaming of feeds and other seeds till they´re all fried up in drumsticks, filets and chickens livers..
If the colonel can teach them jungle chickens to fly real high under the radar, then I believe he will have himself a veritable army of hungry eagles flying in disguise behind the plumage of chickens. Kinda like me, evidently an idiot, but still a good kink in the crook of AR philosophy. you agree?
I still can´t make sense of some Florida legislation though. Why would you need a permit to keep non dangerous cold blooded chickens, if they´re represent to harm or significant risk to your society?

Today is the 17th of May, Norway´s national day. Our day of independence from "swedish slavery" many years ago. It´s only a shame that rests of the old swedish reptile ban that has now dissapeared from their legislation are still present in norwegian legislation, otherwise the Swedes are really kind and sweet I think. ^_^

regards
oby

Oby, just treat them as your Viking ancestors would have. Storm the offices with helmets of horn and take a big sword and battle ax....lol....Rally with the battle cry...FOR THE LEOPARD GECKO'S and then the mayem can begin.....lol
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Uh..
Vikings don´t make good senators for altruistic civilizations I think. And besides, my helmet got broken when my polar bear by mistake sat on it. I could try to glue it back together though, just need to find some spit & grit and some duct tape, steel wire, a pair of pliers and a pinch of motivation. You point in the right direction, then we mayhem with them..

My sword is kinda blunt after I tried to slay a stone-golem with it but I still have some venom to deliver through the split in my tongue but I fear I´m not very accurate in my sight, so sometimes I end up gobbling on the rhino´s butt in stead of the tender end of the yummy AR activist. That´s no fun! Especially when the rhinos get offended and come after you with steam blowing out of their nostrils. It´s a heart shattering experience...
I fear if we gather the vikings and march into battle there will be some collateral damage an all cases. Either that or the enemy will run away from the battle before the real fight even starts, sometimes they do that in order to come back stronger than before.
I don´t mean to question you judgement colonel but in respect to risk analysis.. vikings, being the senseless brute barbarians that they are, may create more of a mayhem than we like to think.. But still... if the route of diplomacy is shot to bits... we might just as well board the viking ships and start the brewing of some of Crutchfields magic master mayhem, or even the more domesticated variant, responsible rage without recession.
I will need to check my insurance policy to make sure that there are no road blocks on the way to viking heaven.
According to the saga, Viking warriors who die in battle go to Valhalla, where they get to engage in battle and slay pigs and other idiots every single day. And if they die in battle, they still get to wake up the next day, to repeat the merries of pig-slaying mayhem all over again.

oby

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer