Reptile & Amphibian Forums

There are many things I do not understand, I am just a fella in the desert that has done very well with many kinds of reptiles. In this case, varanids.

Why do I have to endorse UV bulbs?????? Folks can use or do whatever they want, free country or not. You can use any bulb or heat producing product you like or want. I do not ask anyone what I should do, not even when I started.

Simply put, I would try something and if was of benefit, I would use it until I found something better.

I do not understand the "better" part of this whole discussion. What is better? no one has defined that yet. Would someone please do that?

Also for Bob, the company that you said have calicum problems with their pilbaras did indeed us UV bulbs. I went there and saw their set up. I recomended they switch to something else, but they didn't. They still had problems. They not only used UB bulbs, but they also gave their monitors calicum glut. Injections. And still had bone problems, as you mentioned.

Also Bob, in any case where two different tools(in this case litebulbs) are used and both work, then its not those bulbs, it must be something else.

For instance, if you use UB bulbs and have great success and I do not and have the same(not better or worse) then its not the bulbs is it? Answer please?

ALso i find this conversation is so off the charts it silly. Like The best UV bulb is something akind to 5% of the suns spectrum. Yet you folks are comparing that to the sun.

In a real life comparison, incandesent, halogen, and UV bulbs Pale in comparison to the sun.

So, part of my collection is in the SUN, that is, is outside using natural sun, 24/7/365 and they do not appear any stronger, more active, healthier, or more colorful. They do produce less, but still produce well.

So when your talking about a sun minic and are talking about a lite bulb. You must be in dreamland or something.

Anyway, someone explain why I am suppose to endorse these products I had no use for. Thanks

they way these things were endorsed below with specific brand names and all that someone has a bunch of stock in this! Their numbers must be down like the rest of the world and they are finding new ways of marketing.

In response to something you said down below, I sure know that I dream about the beach and lizards all over and half naked chicks....but dude! those guys in Spain and Italy have totally naked chicks at the beach....albeit some of them you wish weren't. LOL!

For now I will just have to deal with a finding a few species in a cold desert and keep trying to get my wife to handle snakes while naked.
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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian

Hmmmmmmm Isle De Saints in the antillies. Beautiful beach, a iggie, a goat, a naked french girl. over and over all the way down the beach. The only problem was, the lizards ran the wrong way. I guess I could have thrown lettuce on the girls. hahahahahahahahahaha

Actually all is true but the lettuce, its is a very nice island. Cheers

the thing that is most scary about endorsing uv bulbs is that:

Some teen with a sav in a 20long in their bedroom is going to read about the wonders of uv light and be influenced to go buy a monster mega UV ray bulb and put it 5 inches over their lizard.

You know its probably happening right now.

Factoid.
Do you know.. the "reptile" mercuty vapor / tungsten filiment bulbs marketed for herps today are just nothing more than re-incarnations of the old GE "Time-a-tan" bulbs marketed to tan people in the 60's and 70's?

Good call on the ol Tan lamps.
And we all know why there are UV filters on halogen lamps sold.
And we all know, you can buy a MV lamp for $10 and a halogen/tungsten for $5 or less at your local stores.
I think there are few aspects to this discussion.
One is whether these UVB MV reptile specific lamps are more effective with varanid propogation and general health. It seems the answer here is an obvious no.
Another is whether these reptile specific lamps are useful with other species and that may be in another forum.
But it is important to note that these lamps sold require specific distances from basking areas and also there are varied degrees of degradation of the lamps UV effectiveness and longevity even when brand new. I don't think it is a fit all solution especially where the lamp cannot meet or exceeds proper basking temps correlating with dangerous levels of UV or ineffective levels. And how many keepers own UV meters to be able to determine the levels and then determine what levels are required and for how long.
Again, it really comes down to who is having success and what they are doing. As technologies improve, only time will tell.

I have to point out though, lizardrc...

personally, I am a Staunch uv believer.

Pass the Zoo med 5.0 Kool-aid, please.
Some may say my mind has been Mega-rayed. Shoot, maybe I stared into that T-rex uv-heat too long. hahaha

Have been ever since I rigged my first time-a-tan bulb over a leopard tortoise 30+ years ago. (at a 5-6 ft distance)
(gawd, I am getting old)

Seriously, It is totally true that it would Not be a good thing for set up like the example given above. It could easily cause the lizard to become blinded and die.

Alot of good points are brought up on this forum and it stimulates people to think, look deeper and educate themselves.

Hopefully, the monitors can benefit from it.

Cheers.
Todd G.

I hear you. Not with all species obviously but when you house some herps outside, and you see change in scale pigmentation, Yes there is immediate reflective light change but there are also more factors. Like I was stating in the other posting, it may not be directly related to direct sun UV absorption but more so due to the total spectrum of the sun's rays and amount of light received both directly and indirectly. This includes infrared, which, of course, is heating the animal up. So there are many things to consider.

Todd, I'm assuming your preference is the megaray lamp. I do think that lamp has a nice quality of light but the application must be chosen carefully.

I think the debate is whether a $50 MVB UV lamp is more effective than a $5 halogen with varanid husbandry.

You mentioned T-rex. Well John Koots(sp) is one of the folks in england that is promoting/researhing and developing the UV products. He often comes here and we go in the field. Of course, we have very nice discussions over whether its needed or not. hahahahahahahahaha

As with our discussions here. He admits my animals are perfectly healthy without UV bulbs. He also admits I have raised normal healthy other types of reptiles that folks think need UV indoors, like beardeds, chams, torts of different species, and other lizards.

So the discussion becomes, there are keepers that need these products because they lack the understanding or ability to keep these animals without UV products. This we both agree on.

I do not say they are worthless to everyone, simply worthless to me. Again, if I wanted UV for my reptiles, I would put them outside with REAL UV exposure.

Then I admit, we have heat. Bard was saying how hot he keeps the inside of the cages. The trouble is, here, we cannot get our buildin under 85F most of the time and sometimes the building goes over 100F. Thats not under the heat lamp. Thats the ambient temps. Of course, I try to offer low temps in the seventies, but much of the year that is impossible. You know, the opposite of what others experience.

Now that I do not have so many varanids, its possible to keep my building cooler, thank goodness. Cheers

yes. interesting.

Did you say you keep some animals outside year round?

How cool do they get during certain times of the year?

Just curious. I once heard of someone keeping tegus outside year round in virginia. You probably knew who it was ..since he bred lots of different stuff.

cheers

Two winters ago, we hit 13F, but twenties is normally our cold nights. Freezing occurs about 40 nights a year here. Many monitors were come at if it was sunny and over 50F.

Most of the cages are somewhat protected. They have covers and nomally one 65 watt lite bulb. Sometimes two. Cheers

ok so i dont post here often but i do read and i understand this is a highly debated and serious subject and this is an atempt to make light (pun intended) of the subject...

"So, part of my collection is in the SUN, that is, is outside using natural sun, 24/7/365"

lol you must be pretty talented to provide natural sun light 24/7/365!!! 24 hours of sunlight a day!! the best i can manage 14 hours and that like only once a year!!

lol sorry i had too, i hope you understand
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-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Don't do that kind of stuff to babe, she will not forget, and you will run into trouble when you least expect it. Cheers

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-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (Babe)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer)
1.0 norm corn (Jake)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella)
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Torpaz & Saphira)

Im not trying to get you to condone the use of a UVB bulb or tube.

Just the fact that UVB/UVA is a part of their natural way of life, and (god forbid) could on some level we do not understand yet be beneficial for animals. Captive or Wild.

People do what you want,
here is clear evidence that reptiles can be breed for generations with out UVB/UVA. But with a perfect heat gradient, from hot to cold.

So HEAT is the numbero UNO.
With all reptiles, and choice of gradient is maybe even more important.
Too hot is bad, too litle heat is just as bad.
And too cold is bad.

Do you think it would be possible to breed non hibernation SNAKES, pythons for instance the same way as varanids?
Without any season change, just a much wider choise any people give theme today?
If not not, why?

I know people have breed carpets without much cycling. But their results are more sporadic also.

Frank, if I go to Californa or Nevada within a year...
What is the chance of being abel to see your collection since Im in your "area"?

Thanks
Bård

Possible ? You can often breed snake species that do hibernate with very little to no fluctuation . In captivity animals often adapt to run virtually on auto pilot . Many snake species require only the most basic care in order to breed them.

Ernie Eison
WESTWOOD ACRES REPTILE FARM INC.

Well, Its probably possible.

But Iv had very litle luck with it.

I managed to put the probe in the wrong place in my new rack, most probably.
And this season Im getting zero babies.
Iv breed my carpets the last 5 years, and this season, nothing.

Most probably because I never got down low enough for theme, since the probe misplacement didnt make the rigth temp gradient for nigth drop.

But thats my take on it.

Bård

Egyptian Cobras Hatching

Amazon Tree Boa

New born Eastern Diamondbacks

Albino Ball Pythons

Carpets Hatching

Redtail Green Rats Hatching

These pics are a small cross sample what Ive bred. Corn snakes and sand boas, cobras, burms among others Ive bred by doing nothing at all. They just go.

Flat line breeding has been done many times with a variety of species. Some species are much easier then others. Also the animals themselves . Some will some won't . It's not a cut and dry issue. I've bred a lot of snakes under all kinds of conditions. Like the saying go's change is good. For the most part I believe that, but it's not always necessary. I don't know if carpets can be bred without any change or not . Probably. I've never given them much of anything for a cycle and bred them so many times I couldn't even count. Thats how it always has worked for me.

I never assume because something works or doesn't work for me that everyone else will have the same result.
Lizards are basically lizards. There are as many generalizations with lizards as there are with snakes . It's pretty straight foreword but there are some variables that might have to be fine tuned . Nesting and comparability obviously are much more important then with snakes. More work. With a little feel these things aren't much of an issue.

Ernie Eison

WESTWOOD ACRES REPTILE FARM INC.