Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i never put much thought in it before but i was thinking the other day while watching ian g's post on you-tube of the panda pied and noticed this was the first pied/pied combo that effected the head coloration being that it does not have a normal pied or black pastel head its just all white wich does not normally occure anybody have any thoughts on this? thanks for youre replys regards brian

i always found it strange that the super black-pied aka panda pied does not conform to the norm in pieds by having no coloration on the head. that's odd...also, creating a panda pied doesn't seem too difficult, why haven't more been created?
maybe when more pandas come out we will sese if they all have a white head...
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Ralph davis also has/had a lesser pied that is an all white snake. No markings whatsoever.

u are right, that snake also doen't have many markings on the head
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how is it not difficult to make a super black pastel pied? It's essentially the same thing as making a double recessive.

sorry if i am mistaken, but isn't a superblack the homozygotic form of the black pastel, the same as a super pastel is the homozygotic form of the pastel? that is not too difficult to obtain...you cross two black pastels and should get 50% black pastels, 25% normals and 25% super blacks... once you have superblacks, you cross a superblack with a pied and get blacks het for pied. cross them to each other and get 1 superblack, 2 superblacks het for pied, 2 blacks, 4 blacks het for pied, 2 black pieds, 1 normal pied. 2 normals het for pied, 1 normal and 1 panda out of 16 possible combinations. I know, it takes time and lady luck has to look at you favorably, but still i don't see why it would be more difficult to create a panda than it would be to have a superpastel pied...
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In this scenario you don't need to use a punnet square set-up for a double recessive breeding. It is a recessive and co-dominant breeding so your chances are actually better than 1 in 16 to create the panda pied.

In using the breedings you have already used the parents are both going to be black pastels 100% het. pied. So you would break into punnet squares for a het x het breeding; giving you 1 pied, 2-100% het, and 1 normal. ( you won't know which 2 of the 3 normal looking babies are the 100% het's, therefore all 3 are labeled 66% het for pied).

Now you set-up your squares for your black pastel x black pastel breeding, in which your babies should turn out: 1 super black pastel, 2 black pastels and 1 normal.

So now when it gets tallied up after overlapping your 2 sets of punnet squares you are THEORETICALLY going to hatch out 1 normal, 2 black pastels and 1 super black pastel with 1 of those 4 animals being a pied. This is where a little luck comes into play in getting the pied gene to line-up with the 2 black pastel genes creating the panda pied.

It's not as involved as a double recessive gene but a lotta luck is needed in the beeding.

You just described the exact same thing as a double recessive double het breeding. Just change "black pastel" to "het something". The odds are exactly the same in producing a double super co-dom (super pastel super cinnamon for example), a super co-dom recessive (panda pied) or a double recessive. That is, assuming that you are starting with double hets.

How is that easy? Starting with the base morphs it takes a minimum of two breedings. At a minimum, if luck is on your side, which is a stretch, it would take at least three years to get a super black pastel pied. That's far from easy.

totally agree jayefbe
Would say another hard think about that project, is that your probably looking at a minimum of 3yrs, but thats when you already had a close to adult size pied. Thus your owning a 2004-5 born pied. Im guessing that they werent so cheap back then and those that owned were using them for other purposes
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Dave

13.19 brbs

the panda pied will take years to make, and that's if you already have the breeders. no breeders........double the timeframe.

Dave,
Where you been homie? You still going to Hamm this Sep? Hit me up when you get a chance.

Pitoon