Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok i have a 15inch long male beardie that was giving to me by a friend and have had it for a little over a month, been eating well with no problems till now. i am feeding him a mix of 3/4 crickets superworms veggies and the occasional pinkie, but the other morning i woke up n look in his cages to see him tearing off a piece of news paper and eating it, and then doing it again so now i have it on calci sand, but now the past two days i fed him some crickets seuperworms and got him to eat a pinkie, but he regurgitates it all, i dont see it happen but it all is lying around the cage undigested. Is he sick? is there some i can personally do?
any help would be greatly appreciated

The first thought is perhaps an impaction issue. Calci-sand has a reputation for causing impactions. How have bm's been? When was the last one?

This is only Internet advice and cannot take the advice of a vet. If your beardie goes downhill or is not passing stool, he needs a vet right away.

I would make sure the basking temps are warm enough and keep them around 110-115 to keep the overall metabolism up. A nice warm (just lukewarm) bath for 15min or so may help to stimulate him to go poo. I'd stop the superworms since they have a hard chitinous shell and just feed him crickets for a while-crickets without wings. I'd even coat a couple of crickets in cod liver, castor, or mineral oil to help things along.

I would get rid of the calci-sand. He may be picking the paper because there is a worm underneath or the colors are appealing if there is an ad showing. Try just black and white print and try leaving greens for him to pick at during the day.

Does he have a good UV light and calcium supplements without phosphorus to keep his muscular organs in good shape?

Good luck and get him to vet if he's seems blocked up.

Regurgitation sounds like a possible tempurature issue...what are your temps?

As was already said...it could be a temperature issue but I would be more likely to think its an impaction issue from eating the paper. I would take it to a vet to find out what's going on.

thank you all for the reply's and as of now he has had what looks like 2bm's is still eating but sadly still regurgitating, as far as the sand he just got put on it again but had been on it for a long time. basking temps id say are mid to high 90's. as far as exact age i really dont know but hes big enough for pinkies, i feed my other beardie them all the time with no problems and hes even smaller.

I wouldn't definitely seek some vet help. Incomplete blockages can allow for a BM but still prevent proper food passage. Depending on where the blockage is, you will see different symptoms.

I know you like the look of the sand, but if it's not working for your dragon, then perhaps a different choice is needed. Calci-sand is notorious for causing deaths in leopard geckos (you happen to hear about it more there, I guess).

A different option for sand is washed play sand from Home Depot. You get the sand look, but it doesn't clump like Calci-sand. Some animals just react differently to different substrates. I had a dragon that got impacted on regular play sand and I've had more dragons that were fine on sand. Rather than take the risk, I recently switched them all over to paper.

I'm currently searching for that perfect substrate that is easy to clean and pleasing to look at. Personally, I think I'm going to go with loose laid rough ceramic tiles.

How old is the dragon? 15" isn't a lot of help. Do you know his weight? I have 15" adults, and I have 18" yearlings that I wouldn't even consider giving a pinkie to. Are you using calcium and multivitamin?

There is a husbandry or care reason why a dragon would eat substrate.

Superworms don't have a hard shell, I just wouldn't feed them in large quantities.

Your husbandry is killing the lizard. You "think" your hot spot is maybe mid 90's?

Your lizard is too cold and can't metabolize anything, or even hold food down. Your basking hot spot should be 120F , with low to mid 80's for an ambient temp.

You can't guess at temps, you have to KNOW your temps, get yourself a temp gun and get husbandry squared away quickly, before you lose an animal.

Best of luck.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Get your basking temperatures up to at least 100F though around 110-120F being ideal. Use large wide sloping objects for a basking spot (be it logs, wood, wide rocks securely stacked, or a cardboard box if that is all you have available) this way the very top of the basking area is in the high range and the sloping sides, range to lower temperatures as you go lower.

Next, get rid of the calci sand. That's about one step up from the worse possible substrate to use. Better to just get non stick shelf liner and cut it to fit your cage, or unprinted plain white or brown paper towel. Or plain unprinted newsprint (that greyish paper kids use to doodle on).

food wise, offer him lots of greens. Stop feeding pinkies. I never feel these are good as a regular food source. The occasional pinky maybe once or twice a month is fine but they should not be a regular item. For now get some silkworms, butterworms or hornworms. These are very nutritious but lack a hard exoskeleton so makes them easy to digest. Feed only a couple of these works (2-4 silks, 1-2 hornworms, or 3-5 butterworms) and his greens. Then leave him alone for a day. If he still regurgitates, even with just greens (if you can't get the worms right away), take him to a vet.

Constant regurgitation can quickly dehydrate your dragon. If he is impacted that could explain why he is regurgitating but the fact he's having regular bowel movements, he isn't completely blocked up. Thus temperatures would be a very likely cause of the regurgitation. Once your temperatures are up as recommended above, he should stop being sick. If he keeps doing it, definitely get him to a vet. Bring a fresh stool sample if possible, he could have a load of parasites too.
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PHLdyPayne

All this talk of impaction has me thinking. Do you guys think impaction is even an issue if husbandry is good? I just can't see a well hydrated dragon with proper tempurature ranges dying from eating some sand/paper/dirt. What do you guys think?

People dieing of thirst often drink salt or contaminated water even when it will only kill them faster.

I think if an animal eats substrate it is because some need is not being met properly. (husbandy) I also feel large prey items can cause impaction even in the best of conditions. Then again, feeding the wrong size or just the wrong food is bad husbandry too.

I believe if a growing bearded(or egg-laying) does not recieve enough calcium/vitamins, it will look towards other options, like sand. Josh

If a dragon is well hydrated, has the proper temperatures and humidity, there probably isn't as much chance of impaction if on regular children's play sand.

Calcium based sands or crushed walnut are not natural substrates found in the wild (even if they are made out of 'natural' products. Tar's natural too but you wouldn't line your cage with roofing tar). These substrates have a higher risk of impaction even in idea situations. Some sand is injected by dragons licking things, even if you rarely if ever see them do it. Some dragons lick everything often..and stand a chance of ingesting far more sand than others.

The key thing people should remember is there is a riskof impaction from sands (children's playsand, calcium based etc.). Its not a guaranteed impaction. This is why people can have dragons on calci-sand and never have any problems.. but many others do have impaction and death caused by impacted bowels. I have talked to vets who dealt alot with lizards and turtles and they indicate sand/calcium based sands are the main cause of impaction. (of course other factors may have contributed to this, such as poor husbandry). (check the Dr. Mader chat transcript from February to see where I asked him about this, I have also talked to local vets in my area.)
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PHLdyPayne

Exactly...that calci-sand stuff is like clumping cat litter. A dragon licks a stick and eats some. Sand might stick to moist spots on a cricket or veggies. Then it clumps in the gut in an unnatural fashion.

I do think reptiles kept in ideal conditions with exercise are less prone to impaction.