Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When these two were hatchlings they looked like 'normal'. As they got older the male began to lighten to a point that he has salmon colored saddles. Is this Hypo-erythristic?
Even the black phase Mex Mex look 'normal' when they hatch then darken as they age.
I think a black phase Mex Mex with pinkish saddles would look pretty cool....

Got this pair from Shannon last summer.

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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

I don't think you can call your thayeri or mex-mex "hypo-e" or "anery" without proving it out through breeding.

These animals are just part of the normal range of variability found in all mexicana. It's much more complex than a simple recessive trait.

I definitely would consider them anything other than normal until you can prove they follow a typical mendelian pattern.

I forgot an important "not" in my above post!

>>I don't think you can call your thayeri or mex-mex "hypo-e" or "anery" without proving it out through breeding.
>>
>>These animals are just part of the normal range of variability found in all mexicana. It's much more complex than a simple recessive trait.
>>
>>I definitely would consider them anything other than normal until you can prove they follow a typical mendelian pattern.

You are correct on so many points made above, but I don't think the Mexicana complex will ever "follow a typical mendelian pattern." And...I never called any trait simple recessive....

I know all too well about variability....I guess I will call all of these normals until some more arise, if any.....maybe never.
And...I do thank you for your view.

Regards,
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

>>I don't think you can call your thayeri or mex-mex "hypo-e" or "anery" without proving it out through breeding.
>>
>>These animals are just part of the normal range of variability found in all mexicana. It's much more complex than a simple recessive trait.
>>
>>I definitely would consider them anything other than normal until you can prove they follow a typical mendelian pattern.

And....
I never stated they were Hypo-E or Anery.....
I only asked the question of what you all thought.....
And I appreciated everyone's view....

Regards,
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

"This is supposedly one of only two anery Thayeri in the United States."
"My opinion is that she is Hypo-Erythristic rather than Anerythristic (According to my take on the definition of each)."

John,
I didn't say you were calling them anything they weren't. I know you are concerned about people misrepresenting their animals, as evidenced by your response to Stu's post below. You stated your opinion and asked for ours.

Anerythrism and hypoerythrism are normally simple recessive traits, but I'm sure there are exceptions. I agree that there seem to be very few simple recessive traits in mexicana, but there are some (amel ruthveni, hypo greeri, anery alterna...).

Greg

>>"This is supposedly one of only two anery Thayeri in the United States."
>>"My opinion is that she is Hypo-Erythristic rather than Anerythristic (According to my take on the definition of each)."

Cool Greg...
That is why I used words such as 'supposedly' and 'my take on the definitions'....Still all I wanted was everyones' veiws.
And I do thank you... I also like the fact that you group alterna with mexicana still....

Regards,
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

I'd say its a good chance that it is Hypo-E.
If you got the babies from Shannon as possibles they did come from a proven line.
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Boneyardreptiles.com

>>I'd say its a good chance that it is Hypo-E.
>>If you got the babies from Shannon as possibles they did come from a proven line.

Yes they are from Shannon (Tom Agosta stock)....But it is definitely not a recessive or dominant trait that has been proven.
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

Here the female these originated from: Tom A's animal

If i can recall clearly the males out of this stock look Hypo-E. As we can see this female above looks like an Anery. next time I'm @ Tom's i'll try to remember to get pix.

Hope you guys prove it out.

~ZF

Thanks for posting that pic Zenny. When I owned that animal as a sub adult it had color similar to the one in the first pic. Its red color faded more and more as it grew.
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Boneyardreptiles.com

>>Thanks for posting that pic Zenny. When I owned that animal as a sub adult it had color similar to the one in the first pic. Its red color faded more and more as it grew.
>>-----

I thank you too Zenny for the pic.
I will surely keep you all posted on this male..
It seems most male mexmex look better than the females...IMHO.
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

>>Thanks for posting that pic Zenny. When I owned that animal as a sub adult it had color similar to the one in the first pic. Its red color faded more and more as it grew.
>>-----
>>Boneyardreptiles.com

Thank you too Karl....
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

Its a proven line for sure.Problem is you can't tell when they hatch what will be what.And I am in no position to keep every baby for a year to see what ones are going to turn pink ( hypo-e).

Anyway, looks like a hypo-e for sure to me John.

L8r Shannon

>>Its a proven line for sure.Problem is you can't tell when they hatch what will be what.And I am in no position to keep every baby for a year to see what ones are going to turn pink ( hypo-e).
>>
>>Anyway, looks like a hypo-e for sure to me John.

Shannon,
Have you seen a female with the salmon colored saddles?
I will have to breed him to the female and see what happens.....I might be able to hold onto a whole clutch for a year.

Thanks Shannon.....
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

I may be able to help you out there, John, LOL!
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Todd Hughes

>>I may be able to help you out there, John, LOL!

I bet you would....LOL
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

I can't say that I have seen a female yet with that color but maybe ask Karl.He has seen more of them than I have with this trait.

L8r

Yes - I know of 3 females other than mine.

Karl
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Boneyardreptiles.com

>>Yes - I know of 3 females other than mine.
>>
>>Karl
>>-----

I would say it is 'proven' just hard to pin down just as many mexicana morphs.....Even the black phase mex mex look normal as hatchlings......Nobody's proven the amel / striped ruthveni and melanistic thayeri are polymorphic in my opinion....sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't....
I do appreciate the agreeing posts......
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John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."