Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ITs posted in another forum, it was connected to a follow up, posted by Rope, concerning learning the hardway. Please take it for what it is.

"Your post on, learning the hard way, got my dang noggin stirring. Its bringing up bad memories. I have a feeling some of my poor additude towards the past monitors keepers is embedded in the statement you made.
'Why do we have to learn the hard way"

First let me say, its not about them being good or bad people. Its about the pain and suffering that monitors have endured for all this time. It bothers me how long it took to allow such normal reptiles such as monitors to succeed in captivity.

In the same time period, seventies to early ninties, all other genre of reptiles were all allowed to succeed, even such animals as tortoises. Which were once thought to take decades to mature and only rarely produce. These are no longer thought of in such terms.

Monitors where not addressed in the terms and expectations of all other reptiles. They were simply allow to exsist and perish, without consideration of allowing life events.

This of course was blamed on all such things but the keepers themselves. This allowed me to have some anger towards these people.(i believe rightfully)

Then after I succeeded in allowing monitors of many species to quickly and efficiently achieve life events, I was asked to respect these nice people. While unless otherwise prompted, I did or do respect them as people, but someone please tell me, how can I respect them as keepers? I did and do respect the achievements some allowed. However limited.

The problems are many and diverse. These problems are based on people(the keepers) not the animals. Each keeper, has blamed all but himself. I find that odd. I find with me, if any thing is negative, I did it, if anything was positive, the monitors were suppose to do that. They are indeed designed to achieve life events, its simply cannot be a keepers "special abilities" to achieve. It can only be allowed. It(life events)is and must be expected.

Also, once shown clearly and without doubt, that these animals can and do achieve life events, in captivity, these fine people then turned from doubters to blaming me personally. Calling me rude, arrogant and all such terms. Even calling me hitler and stalin(what a combo). And all this because I allowed monitors to be monitors. And because, I firmly and steadfastly believed in the monitors and not them. I am sorry for that, but I believe my job was concerning the monitors, not the people keeping them. Or even the people writing the papers about them. It was and will remind the monitors.

Lastly, If they want to blame me for their failures, go ahead, as I do understant, its about them and not about me. So yes, I will remain rude, arrogant and I will steadfastly side with the monitors on all discussions. Please forgive me about doing that and please forgive me about this rant. Frank Retes

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I knew it was in ya. I bet you were a mad activist back in the day! I know youre not about changing people these days, but that was a moving post, I must say. (not that it NEEDS to be said, but I couldnt help it)

I think we need to be reminded of what these Forum's are here for. They are here so that people with experience and achievements can help newcomers or beginners learn valuable information. Sure when someone has been around awhile they might say things very directly and to the point only because they have probably said it a thousand times already. So if this is taken in a wrong way then you obviously werent reading for information and just looking to complain or start a fight. Come here to learn not [bleep] and moan. Frank stand strong and dont shy away from these forums. Help is always needed.

Spatrick

I have to agree... I know I'm new to these boards and new to Monitors.. but I can't help agreeing with this whole thing. While I don't like rudeness I can understand it from long-time keepers who are trying to teach people.. but those people don't want to hear what the long time keepers have to say unless its what they want to hear. Take me for example.. not long ago I know I posted about my Bosc not liking to burrow.. well I figured out the reason for that... The soil was too moist.. so I mixed in cypress mulch (dried) to let air into the soil and dry it out some...Now she doesn't stop rearranging her enclosure almost daily to suit her and her confidence level has increased as well.. she no longer feels "trapped" so to speak with the need to react agressively everytime I open to clean... I listened to what the long time keepers had to say and tried to figure out the why's for her reluctance to burrow... Many people don't even attempt to listen and thats a sad state of affairs for the animals in their possession because ultimately its those animals that suffer.. not the people. Sometimes I'd like to, just once, throw someone in a cramped enclosure, feed them once a week, make them drink dirty water and live exposed for the whole world to see on display and see how much they like it. I can guarentee it would give them a whole new perspective in their captive husbandry ideas.
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Lucien

1.0 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)
3.1 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzard and 2 het Blizzard)
0.1 Savannah Monitor
13 rats
12 Gerbils
2 Dogs
3 cats
1 Albino Corey (fish)

There are people out here who appreciate you, what you have done and what you have shared. My monitors sure don't have me to thank for this cage design. It's not perfect but it's a decent start. Thanks Frank.
Ian

P.S. Sorry if this drifts from the content of the post but I've been reading the recent posts on Kingsnake and here on Varanus.net and this is what I wanted to say .