Reptile & Amphibian Forums

well my male phantom ball python hatched...and today finnaly came out of his egg thanks alan cant wait to get him. alan belcher is a great guy with real phantoms not that mistics arent phantoms because they are as well.... and a big congrats on proving youre phantom line hypo burmese with hatching lucy burms a week after the other line of hypo burmeses good stuff alan i will hate to see you leave the hobby take care and best of luck on all youre ventures

Alan got what he calls Phantoms from RMJ Reptiles, RMJ got what he calls Phantoms DIRECTLY FROM ME, they are ALL MYSTIC/PHANTOMS. I was not willing to call them Phantoms from the start , at the very least knowing that both RDR Phantoms and my imported line I call Mystics were BOTH imported originally it really wasn't correct for me to call mine Phantoms since I had no genetic proof they were the exact same bloodline , until the 2 lines are bred together and make a Super Phantom that is identical to RDR line Super Phantoms we really shouldn't be calling them all the same things. I'd appreciate it if you get your info right before posting things you are only hearing one side of the story about....... If the animal you have is sired by an animal that Alan bought from RMJ then you have a "Mystic" my friend, odds are VERY high that is in fact the case!

Anthony McCain

well my friend i suppose i was lied to then this animal was being sold to me as a phantom NOT a mistic/phantom and was told a story about ralph and jhon martino that im not going to get into but in the end we see this same thing happen with butters and lessers black pastels and cinnamons fires and sulphers vanillas and thunders and so on and so forth fact is they all do the SAME THING!! i was told he has both types mistics and phantoms and the clutch thats haching as i type is supposed to be phantoms now alan did tell me they are from his good friend RMJ and if these are the animals that came from you then im being lied too and will consider reniging on this whole mess i like them but not enough to go through all this crap.. maybe i will just stick to my clowns and pieds and put the purple passion mistic potion or what ever there calling them to bed. and for the record one can only go by what ones told.... good day

As I said if the parent is from RMJ then it is a MYSTIC, PERIOD.
RMJ NEVER got ANYTHING back from the original female Phantom (the one Ralph calls the million dollar momma). They parted ways over the phantom stuff BUT RJM didn't get any genetics back from Ralph he got the gene from me. John got a 06 Mystic from me on a trade , John bred the Mystic and sold stuff to Alan. The Phantom naming thing is not something I did, it is something others decided to do as they felt it was the same thing anyway based on phenotypical comparision only. I stuck to my guns and kept the Mystic (note the proper spelling) name as to differentiate from Ralphs line since the original Mystic was imported several years after that original Phantom female and likely came from a different source alltogether. Yes they likely will do similiar things . Are they the exact same things ? Probably but Who knows?

To me a Black Pastel and a Cinny aren't the exact same things , the Supers of the 2 genes can be put side by side and they aren't the same (one is more black than the other by far). They obviously are alleles of each other too because you can breed them together and get a Super (that too is a darker Super than a regular Super Cinny , why , because it has Black Pastel in it , again more proof in my mind they aren't the same). The Mystic and the Phantom may end up alot like that , to early to say really.

Anthony McCain

well that all seems to make sence anthony i just wish people would tell it like it is and thats it uno! if its a phantom call it that if its a mystic call it mystic. because i get on here and say something that i belived to be true and end up looking like a fool or upseting someone in youre case who had the very fist ones my apoligies first off but from what i was told i thought i was right . and i totally agree with you cinnys and black pastels being different even sulphers and fires as for butters and lessers not so sure ive seen top quality examples of both.maybe its just a locality difference that make these morphs vary who knows. maybe you would be the one to ask i was going to give alan a male clown and female het for a male mystic well according to him a phantom would this seem like a even trade?? i have NO CO-DOMS just lots of clowns and pied stock and they have been really good to me over the years it just seems alot of co-doms reach a touchable price and then plumitt the following year whats youre take on this do you see youre mystics holding there value for some time to come or will there be a flood of them all at once i only see a few reputable breeders offering them probley youreself dan wolf nice gentleman also garrick demeyer and ofcourse rmj and alen. even if they dont prove to be phantoms i wouldent be upset because i think them potions you produced are better looking than the super phantom IMO OF COURSE i just dont want to see these going for 800.00$ to a grand a year from now and clowns still sitting where they are anyway sorry for the confusement anthony in the orginal post please let me know what you think about mystics future and rather or not my trade would be in my best interest.... regards brian

I can't in any way say for sure what the mystic/phantom market will do, but if i were producing clutches of clowns and piebalds this year, I'd be happy to trade one of each for a female to breed to my male mojo. I think it all comes down to how badly you really want that animal. Of course, there is always the option to sell your offspring and use the money to buy a mystic from one of the other breeders you mentioned. (I've been eyeing one of dan wolfe's females, but unfortunately I'm still paying off my piebald project)

I wasn't actually mad at you for posting , I was just rubbed the wrong way based on how people (not you) twist things around in a self serving way . I think the Mystic is still a very valuable gene to have and I think more cool things will come from the project in the next several years. Jason has the right idea as any morph is only worth something if somone likes/wants it, some folks hate Pieds or Albinos, some think they are the best morphs out there, so really it all boils down to what YOU LIKE. Clowns are recessive so it's tough to compare them to Mystics (codom). Clowns personally aren't my favorites so to me that trade would be one I would do ALL DAY LONG , but that's just me. As long as your happy with the animal you receive then I see nothing wrong with that trade at all (value wise it's pretty fair).

As for the Mystic gene in general, I think it is a "type" of phantom but until we do more breedings it's hard to say how the Mystic and the Phantom are related , either on an exact same thing basis or like the Cinny and the Black Pastel are similiar yet different.

Jason , thanks for your post , your point is a good one.

Anthony McCain

congrats......

and....where's he going???

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alen is selling the entire collection.. he bought another buisness