Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Nathan Hall, Mike Davis and I made a trip to W. Texas last Weds. thru Sun. to observe and photograph herps. Most of the time it was the usual suspects: night snakes, atrox, subocs and many others, but Saturday night was special for all of us. We all believed it was going to be too cold but decided to try anyway with the weather at night being 68 degrees. It was windy and the high during the day was only 88 degrees. The second location we decided to look turned up 3 alterna within 15 minutes. We were in absolute awe. This was Mike and I's first alterna. This was Mike's first trip out west so he must think alterna are easy! Ha-ha. First was a light blairs phase that was only seen for about 15 seconds before it dissapeared into a hole up about 20 ft. The second was another nice blairs found chewed up in a hole possibly by a ringtail cat. The third was a very dark black and gray blairs with just a few red scales observed high up approximately 25 ft. I have in situ pics of the second and third I will post soon. I've never felt such a rush of adrenline. That last night made it the best trip I've ever been on. Pics coming soon. Chris

it was good talking with you and glad to hear you guys had such a nice outing. I hope we can all get together soon.
Nathan

Hey Nathan, it was good to talk to you also. I would like to make that trip with you and Nathan H. sometime. Heres an in situ pic of the dark blairs. Sorry for the lousy pic but I couldn't think straight and wanted to get a shot before it dissapeared like the first. Chris

Dude, don't lump subocs into the "usual" category. Phylogenetically speaking, alterna are much more 'usual' than subocs!

DR

I dont get that statement... Are you saying that subocs are less common than Alterna?

I bet most of us have observed 6 to 7 subocs in one night. I doubt many folks have done that with Alterna.

Congrats to Crested, Mike and Nathan. Way to start out the year!!!!!!!

Later,

StevenX

StevenX,

Lance got it.

I was referring to how phylogenetically unusual subocs are compared to alterna. In other words, alterna are related to most other Lampropeltinine colubrids to a greater degree than are subocs -- e.g. you can hybridize alterna with Pantherophis and other Lampropeltis (and they naturally hybridize too), but subocs are so divergent and reproductively isolated from those taxa, that they don't/can't even hybridize with them. This has to do with reproductive isolation due to evolutionary genetics (40 diploid chromosome pairs compared to the usual 36) and due to reproductive ecology (subocs breed and lay later than all other colubrids in the U.S.).

So I was just joshin' with Chris -- nothing to do with numbers and/or how easy they are to detect. Just with how evolutionary unusual they are compared to alterna.

Cheers,

Dusty R.

p.s. Lance, your prize is your choice of a ketchup, bbq, or honey mustard sauce pack from McDonalds.
Suboc.com

I can make a list of you would like
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Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

I love subocs. I just meant they are fairly common out there compared to alterna unless your talking about blondes. Thanks for the comments guys. It's a trip I'll never forget. Chris Drake

If I remember right Subocs have a different chromosome count than your "typical" colubrid.

I could be wrong, but if not expect a prize
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

I know a 30" DOR male was found and Roy found a DOR the night we left Sanderson. Has anyone else found a live alterna yet this year or our 2 live the first? Just curious. Chris

Please understand that there are many folks that observe a lot more than what is posted.

What I am trying to say is...You were not the first to observe Alterna this year.

Best wishes,

Steven X

But you deserve some major kudo's seeing 3 in one night and in a few minutes of each other.

Congrats Again!

Take Care,

Steven X

Thanks Steve. I know we were out a little early this year so i thought we might be the first and so did Roy but it doesn't matter. I'm still excited about finding my first and 3 at that. It was a great feeling of accomplishment. Can't wait for the next one! Chris