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Question for Rainer

indictment May 20, 2009 04:19 PM

A lavender FL king has recently come into my possession. I was told it was a Brooks FL King, but I have been questioning that claim.

From what I understand, the brooksi form is currently designated as the same thing as floridina taxonomicically speaking, but brooksi is just a locality name and is somewhat synonomous with a trait like that of hypomelanism.....is this right?

If so, how would one distinguish a floridina from a brooksi if the kingsnake in question was a lavender albino?

Here is the snake in question

Image
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1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

Replies (12)

Boneyard May 20, 2009 04:52 PM

Read the post titled "Are They" about half way down the page.
It should answer you questions.
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Boneyardreptiles.com

Bluerosy May 20, 2009 06:17 PM

I don't think a pure amelanistic s. Florda king with was ever found or produced.

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1692087,1692098
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www.Bluerosy.com

indictment May 21, 2009 10:56 AM

Why is this? Is it not a simple recessive trait? If so, why wouldn't someone have tried to introduce it to S. FL King Stock(s)already? Or have people tried and it just doesn't work?
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1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

Ace May 20, 2009 10:07 PM

The difference is in the amount of pattern they show. A "brooksi" as first described had no visible, or barely visible saddles, just scale tipping. They are not a "locality" since both forms can (or could) be found throughout much of their range, sometimes side by side. Although they were more common in S. Florida.
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Ace

Dobry May 21, 2009 12:25 AM

So what then is the inheritance of the "brooksi" trait? Is it a simple recessive trait that causes the "brooksi" phenotype in S. Florida kings?
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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian

Bluerosy May 21, 2009 09:06 AM

From what i have seen the crossbar on the "old" Canal stock S. florida "brooksi" have a different look to their northern locales. Yes the northern locales get yellow and you can find both yellow and dark phenotypes under the same board or location. Same thing is south Florida. but as far as locales it is not the look but rather were the snake came from. Same goes for cal kings. There is variety but there are also the subtle nuances that make a connesoir apprciate them.

But there are also a few things that bother me about the old canal stock (and when I mean old it is the area that is no longer being collected) . One is that there were rumors of people releaseing dark northern floridana in the area. Other is that the area is not longer existent or accessable. I am refferring to the old canals. Not all. Most of the collectors of recent d=find more dark specimens than light. Back in the day south Florida collectors found more yellow phenotypes, or at least released the dark ones and kept the lighter ones.

From the old stock that I used to keep before the advent of the hypo I knew which animals came from that area. There was a unique look they had wether they were darker or lighter. Breeders did selective breeding to produce more yellow stock and bred sibling to sibling. That is how the reccessive trait of the New England axanthic was discovered.

Of course there are other light colored floridana all over Florida. i think they go up to about 300 miles before the Georgia border. From there it is mostly intergrade with Cal kings. The high Yellow sulfur is a good example. But the crossbars are all different.

Either way you look at it "brooksi" is more of a herpetoculturists term when properly applied through preserving the old stock through breeding effors . I have said before i wish the term Brooksi was done away with and just refferred to locale or county orf origin. Like S. Florida king. Or name the county or locale... much like what is going on with california kingsnake.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Bluerosy May 21, 2009 09:09 AM

"Of course there are other light colored floridana all over Florida. i think they go up to about 300 miles before the Georgia border. From there it is mostly intergrade with Cal kings"

I said Cal kings, HA HA HA,,,,I meant Eastern kings.

I wish there was a edit function here sometimes.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Dobry May 21, 2009 11:42 AM

Ok let me revise this question. This female was sold to me as a Brooksi and she was of the high yellow phenotype. In the transaction I also acquired one of her hatchlings a male (eating photo). This snake has not undergone any color change and it has been a few years. This season I bred them together, but I lost my female just before she dropped her eggs while in shed, so I unable to prove out the inheritance of the yellow phenotype, however I want to know if this male is het or not. Is the yellow phenotype just simply a hypo gene and is it simple recessive?

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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian

Boneyard May 21, 2009 12:23 PM

Brooksi is not a trait. It is not recessive or hypo.
Brooksi WAS considered a seperate subspecies but it was done away with. Everything is now Floridana.
The amount of yellow is a result of line breeding. If you breed a very yellow one to a brown one you will get a mix of animals from brown to yellow. If you breed a very yellow one to another very yellow one your gonna get mostly very yellow ones. This has been done with many species.
Hope this helps
Karl
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Boneyardreptiles.com

Bluerosy May 21, 2009 12:48 PM

Brooksi is not a trait. It is not recessive or hypo.
Brooksi WAS considered a seperate subspecies but it was done away with. Everything is now Floridana.
The amount of yellow is a result of line breeding. If you breed a very yellow one to a brown one you will get a mix of animals from brown to yellow. If you breed a very yellow one to another very yellow one your gonna get mostly very yellow ones. This has been done with many species.

I agree with what Bonyard said above. What you have is NOT a hypomelanistic trait. When we refer to hypo in Florida kings/Brooks it is a reccessive trait and not just a light colored specimen.
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www.Bluerosy.com

Tony D May 21, 2009 12:42 PM

in my experience (limited) yellow in eastern complex getula does not follow the pattern of a recessive trait. You can increase or decrease it's expression in a population through selective breeding but that is all.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

Dobry May 23, 2009 11:55 AM

n/p
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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian

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