Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I am interested in making a tub set up in my garage. I have no idea even where to begin except I know I can do it. I would like to go inexpensive as possible but I can afford to do it right. Anyone that has gone down this road please help me. Do not let me make all the same mistakes others have done without asking for help first. I need a colony that will support feeding at least 15 ball pythons maybe up to 20 of them. Where can I buy or find the plans to make a nice tub set up. How many bins would I need and how would you place the rats for easiest breeding? Is there a place or company I would want to order my starter rats with for good genetics? I am going to make a Co2 chamber and will be able to vacuum seal and freeze excess rats. Thanks for any help any of you fellow herpers can give me.

Thanks,
Mark

I have seen several people use this design:

http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/rat_rack/ratrack.shtml

Good luck!

Bart

I can't help you with plans but Bart's link is a good start.

I myself think 10 tubs is perfect for a small set up, and if you run it just right you can have a mom with pinks every week.

I buy my rats local I bought my females from one store and the males from another. I replace my own females with my own litters and I bring in new males every year to get fresh blood. Being that your breeding for food genetics is really minimal at best.

Being again that these are feeders its important to remove animals from the colony that don't meet your standards.

-Biting animals
-females with small litters
-cannibalism

Anytime I see any of the above the animal meets the chamber.

A CO2 chamber is easy to make yourself. All you need is a Rubbermaid tub that latches or seals so the animals can open it.
A length of Hose, and appropriate fittings for either end. A 20 pd tank with gas, and a regulator.

The regulator can be found at a garage sale in an old welding setup. There are CO2 specific regs and many people use CO2 with MIG welders...so keep your eyes peeled. Its also to find a new reg at either a welding supplier or anywhere that sells Keg setups for home use.

Once you get everything and start the setup, you note there is a proper method of freezing the animals.

-Gas
-Freeze
-Package

If you don't freeze them before packaging immediately after gassing, A rigamortis sets in and B if you vacuum seal them before freezing the will turn to goo when you thaw them...

Good Luck
-----
Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Suriname/Columbian cross
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

i have a decent sized colony. i also built everything myself. pm me and i can answer your questions.

here's some pics of one of my previous racks i made years ago..........

Pitoon

OK,

First of all thank you to everyone so far that has responded. I am in that part of my breeding venture where I have had about 5 to 10 balls and FT has been awesome. Now I have 6 2500 gram females alone that need at least a 300 gram meal a week and about 10 others that need at least a small to medium each week to order 4 to 6 months worth of food that size for just 20 snakes that big can be around 450 to 600 dollars...Ouch. Not to mention the time it takes to prepare them for feeding each week. Frozen totally sucks for me now. But when I started doing snakes I never thought I would end up breeding my own rats, what have I done? Anyway, it actually is feeling pretty good. Kind of makes things full circle. I just know that every time I order frozen rats I am going to be in tears as I give them my credit card number.

So anyway, bsharrah thank you for the post. I saw this plan last night and I love it. It seems easy to build and would suit what I need? The question I have is that watering system should I purchase and is it as hard as I think it will be to install? I am definitely making this rack with a watering system. If it is appropriate to ask can any of you guys recommend a good system for me to get for that rack design? Thank you.

And now to Bighurt thank you for your post. The question I have to you is when you say to have a 10 rack system do you mean for me to build the design to have 2 - 5 tub racks side by side. And if so can I just start off with 1 rack with 5 tubs to make sure I like it?

And finally pitoon thank you for your post. All I can say is that you are insane. I love you to death but if you think I am going out and welding up a rat rack you do not know me at all. I will be burning my house down at a minimum. You are truly one of my favorite breeders on KS and if they had an annual award show for breeders they would be hard pressed to find anyone more deserving for awards on the forums than you. I just wish I lived in Europe so we could be buds. I will be writing you as well.

Thanks again to you awesome guys willing to spend some of your personal time to help me out.

Mark

I do run two 5 rack's side by side. I keep 1.2 in each of the 5 on one side and use the other for grow out. I can kill off about 40 smalls a week with the current cycle.

For watering I use "Bass Equipment" products, I use the automatic water valves and the black flex tubing. With appropriate connectors all run off a 5 gallon bucket atm. I am planning on adding another 5 slot rack to the system and a bigger water supply, possible pressurized.

My racks are built similar to those in Bart's link, except I use ply rather than dimensional lumber and I use metal J channel for tracks. The ply allows for a lighter more compact rack and the metal track lessens the chance of chew outs. I also make my trays 3" rather than the thinner 1.5", they hold 4 pds of food per tray or almost 50 pds in the whole rack. The larger food tray means I fill only once a week.

With racks its easy to add another if you design the plumbing right.

I used to run 7 but my new racks are far more efficient that I can feed the same collection with less racks. The only issue I have now is my 10 2008 hatchlings are into smalls, once they move to mediums I'll have some production issues. The larger the prey the more you rack you need due to the length of time for grow out.

Last tip. Unbreed males can be housed together so long as their are no females. This is an advantage as males grow 3 times as quick as females....

I don't have any pictures, so hopefully the descriptions are good enough.

Cheers
-----
Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Suriname/Columbian cross
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

Hello,

Do you think if I was to build the rack like in the Link and I had the top two tubs used for 1.2 or 1.3. and then used the other 4 tubs for grow out that I could sustain a collection of about 15 balls. I would have 10 large females and five males. And of course I will have eventually a juvi rack with various size juvi balls? The other question is will I have a chew out if I make with wood? How can I use metal if I don't have the skills or tools to make? Thanks for your help.

Mark

What size rats are you using if they are Small or less you will be fine. Medium males can be harvested about 3 wks after weaning...

Have you considered African Soft Fur Rats...many Ball keepers use them but they are hard to fine. Reason I mention them is they are smaller do best in colonies and are the animals natural prey.

No so long as the hardware cloth covers the entire top of the tub you use you will not get a chew out. Of course properly feed, watered and temperature is also critical.

The J channel I use is used to trim drywall for edge protection its thin and I simple use my pneumatic staple gun to hold it in place. Screws would also work.

When I started out I knew nothing but the need inspired me to learn. I would care nothing of cabinetry and DIY had I never kept Reptiles. The desire to save a buck and use something other than an Aquarium, lead me to build all my own cages. I often find my self learning how to do something because I want a desired end product. Learning carpentry, welding and html have all been for a purpose.

Use this as an excuse to learn you can never know to much...

That being said you don't need to make a rack out of metal to contain rats...
-----
Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Suriname/Columbian cross
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

Hi,

One more question? What size hardware cloth should I use. I will be feeding the typical Mizuri M30 the link says 1/3" but is there a standard size people use.

Thanks,
Mark

I use Mazuri Lab5000 Rodent feed, and 1/2" hardware cloth.
-----
Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Suriname/Columbian cross
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

.5" sq wire is good enough, feeders can still get to the food, and still keep the little ones in. remember no angles on the tubs, they get chewed faster. and remember to always have back up tubs ready....you will thank yourself later i promise

and metal is not the only way to build a rack. however i try to use as much space as i can with what i have available.

that being said if you were to build a rack with the same dimensions as the metal tubing i used to weld......if you bump that wooden rack it will fall apart.

wooden rack = fast easy build, but bulky, heavy to move
metal rack = longer build, need to know how to weld, lighter, more space efficient

different strokes.........for different folks.

the best advice i can give out is to use space wisely. cause when the time comes that you fill it..... you're going to be saying you wish you had more room.

Pitoon