Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I know everyone says, DON'T USE PINE SHAVINGS FOR SUBSTRATE!!! I know pine containt toxic oils at low levels and cedar is much worse. However, my question is,

Has anyone on here actually had a snake die from pine? Whether it be as a substrate or whatever. Most of us who breed our own rats use pine shavings for the rats. They must get pine on them and when we feed them, they must have residue from the shavings. I guess what I'm trying to find out is, are the phenyl levels actually high enough in pine shavings to do any real damage to a ball.

Oh and not to be rude, but unless you have had a snake die from pine, or you have actual evidence that answers this question, please refrain from posting. I don't want opinions, I want experience and facts.

Thanks,
Jared

Now, what kind of dumb-azz question is that?????? Just kiddin' The place I get my shavings, makes their own and I always have them mix in, ready for this, a little CEDAR! Just for the smell! I've NEVER had a ball, as far as I know, from shaving poisoning!

I guess I better clarify! My pine/cedar mix was for rodents NOT snakes! About 25% cedar or less to 75% pine!

(70s-80s) a lot of keepers used pine shavings, including myself. Never had a death, but some individual snakes reacted badly-sniffling, mouth open breathing, etc... Once aspen became commonly available, almost everyone switched to it. Even though it was slightly more expensive, its numerous advantages greatly outweighed the expense. Now, I would not use anything else (except cypress in some cases).

As a former reptile/pet shop owner, I have seen (among my customers) MANY reptile deaths from cedar!
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I have to agree with Brad on this one. Many, many years ago aspen was not readily available as a reptile subsrate. Back then I primarily used pine as most others did as well. The only major problem I had with pine was back in the early 80's when I had a lot of baby snakes in small containers within a larger cage that were on pine. A lot of them tipped the water dishes and the aroma/odor from the pine was really high. I lost a few snakes and some others seemed to develop neurological problems. After a few days on paper towels and in better vented enclosures they came around and were fine. I still use pine on all of our rodents, both breeders & resale. I believe pine would be fine in a very arid/open enclosure but not in one that requires higher humidity.
Bruce Delles c/o Twin Cities Reptiles
OVER 30 YEARS IN THE RETAIL REPTILE BUSINESS
Link

So what about injesting? If a snake were kept on pine and in injested some with a rat or if some pine got in the water source, would enough toxic oils be released to do any damage?

fact...I never tried it

fact...I have 2 friends that have used it...for years...not now...but before...

...they had snakes die...but they thought it was from eating the shavings....not the oils...

fact....snakes in the Pine barrons live on pine needles alot of the times....???

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