Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I know everyone says, DON'T USE PINE SHAVINGS FOR SUBSTRATE!!! I know pine containt toxic oils at low levels and cedar is much worse. However, my question is,

Has anyone on here actually had a snake die from pine? Whether it be as a substrate or whatever. Most of us who breed our own rats use pine shavings for the rats. They must get pine on them and when we feed them, they must have residue from the shavings. I guess what I'm trying to find out is, are the phenyl levels actually high enough in pine shavings to do any real damage to a ball.

Oh and not to be rude, but unless you have had a snake die from pine, or you have actual evidence that answers this question, please refrain from posting. I don't want opinions, I want experience and facts.

Thanks,
Jared

Your comparing the exposure to residual oils on consumed rats kept on pine bedding to the effects of long term constant exposure to the product itself...

That's like implying you'll get lung cancer if you drive a car that the previous owner smoked in.

To answer your direct question, No I have not had a reptile die of exposure to Pine. Then again I don't use Pine bedding with my reptiles. I do keep feeder rats on Pine and have seen the long term effects in older Male breeders.

Truth of the matter is there is enough scientific data collected and presented in medical and veterinarian journals to support not keeping certain animals on Pine.

The aromatic oils of pine don't just effect reptiles there are a number of other animals that have issues, to include humans.

Lastly you are free to do with your collection as you choose. I myself don't want to worry about potential issues, so I just avoid the product.

BTW you skirted the issue involving the use of Pine lumber in enclosure construction...
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Suriname/Columbian cross
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

So what about injesting? If a snake were kept on pine and in injested some with a rat or if some pine got in the water source, would enough toxic oils be released to do any damage? Oh and I didn't discuss pine lumber because one, I didn't think about it when posting, and two, most woods are sealed with sealant or paint when used in construction.

>>So what about injesting?

Ingestion is an entirely different subject, something that presents a danger with any substrate, even paper.

The olfactory region is much more sensitive than the digestive system, and completely different chemically. We are not talking about poison, the danger is through inhalation and the effect on the olfactory system.
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Suriname/Columbian cross
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

So what you're saying is, if the water bowl gets pine in it and the snake drinks it, it shouldn't pose any viable threat?

>>So what you're saying is, if the water bowl gets pine in it and the snake drinks it, it shouldn't pose any viable threat?

To the best of my knowledge No.

Way back..... before keeping boas and other snakes was as popular as it is today.....

I kept "all" my snakes on Pine Shavings. I never had one die or had any problems from the oils in the pine.

OK, I did have one die, but not from exposure to the oils. I had a female give birth on the Pine Shavings and some how.. One of the babies got a piece of pine stuck in it's umbilical area. It died on the way to the vet. Prior to this happening, I kept my snakes on Pine for, at least, 9 years without a problem.