Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Honest question and I'd rather not see a flame war.

I happen to use UV lighting for my Beardies. I was curious as to how others supplement when they do not use UV. How do you know how much supplement to give to prevent any issues? Do you supplement each meal and what product do you use?

I used to use UVB on all my dragons. Then I experimented with not using UVB on my adults. I dusted their food with calcium with D3. The dragons were fine. Then I started feeding my adults a diet exclusively of Rep-Cal pellets. I use no additional supplements. The dragons are healthy, happy, and reproduce great without UVB or additional supplements when using Rep-Cal pellets.

The next step was experimenting with no UVB with my babies. I have found that minimal UVB (5.0 bulb, or outdoor exposure for 20 minutes once per WEEK) is sufficient when dragons are either supplemented with calcium with D3 or fed an exclusive diet of Rep-Cal pellets. I only bother with UVB exposure for the first 6 months now.

I was worried that lack of UVB would affect mood and breeding. I found that brightness has a much larger affect on these issues then UVB. I use very bright lighting, and my dragons do just fine.

Jamie

The problem with your observations is you didn't test for Calcium levels before and after. So you really can't say that it makes no difference. You can only say you observe no difference. Dragons like people are all different. Some may be fine without UVB exposure. But would UVB exposure be beneficial? Absolutely! Bone density tests done on humans has shown that Arab woman have less calcium in their bones than other nationalities because they cover all their skin and are therefore not receiving the beneficial rays of the sun. Do the Arab women have to have sun exposure to survive? No. Would they benefit from it? Yes.

People make husbandry decisions for their own reasons as I have stated before. I believe in only giving the BEST care. I'm not going to not give them something that is beneficial. I'm sure that I won't get an argument that UVB properly used is not detrimental.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I feel you are making decisions based on what is convenient to you and not what is best for the animals. I make 21 salads a day and care for 4 kinds of bugs. It is a hassle and very time consuming but I wouldn't consider changing to untested pellets.

Hello,

I got my first dragons 16 years ago. I have successfully bred several different specie of lizards and got a pair of iggs in the 80's when the whole iggy craze started.

Beardies were the first specie of reptile that I used UVB for. They were compact bulbs and cost $40. I only used the UVB lites on a trio of beardies and one male Veiled. I never used the bulbs on babies or sub adults.

Now, 16 years later, I'm indifferent about UVB lighting. I have enclosures with repti-sun 10.0's and cages with no UVB lighting at all. Dragons in my care don't "need" them. I produce hundreds of babies a year and my females lay many clutches. The key is to provide the D3 through diet and to provide high basking temp options to enable the animals to metabolize calcium properly.

I always recommend to beginners to use repti-sun 10.0's. They definitely help cover up other areas of husbandry that might be lacking.

I'm sure you do take great care of your dragons. The original poster was asking about how different people handle the UVB issue. I explained my method. There is no need to "put down" another person's husbandry just because you have a different opinion.

Jamie

My intent was not to "put you down". When you place a contrary opinion you should expect others comments. There is testing out supporting the value of UVB for all non nocturnal species.

My biggest worry is that people often take the path of least resistance. Someone says UVB is unnecessary and the inexperienced grab onto that as an easier and cheaper way to care for their animals.

The picture below is one of two dragons that lived together in the same conditions. The other is a male and is completely normal. This one laid eggs and was near death. She was brought to a local vet who was not experienced with reptiles. That vet fearing the worst drove her over an hour to one of my vets who transfered her to me to rehab.

Some here may remember her story from a year and a half ago. I built 2 cages at N/C for her owners and returned their dragon. In December she was near death again and the owner decided they didn't want any of their dragons anymore. Now she and her former cage mate live here.

The moral of the story is that the pictured female lived in the same conditions as the male but did not thrive while the male did. Was UVB the issue? Probably partially, but there were also likely other factors involved.

Thanks...that was the kind of info I was curious about.

The problem is that lizards can seem fine without UVB lighting. The big problem though is their bone density. This is not something you can see but after long periods of time they can die from it. This is why some people say their beardie was healthy and fine but only lived 5 years instead of 10 . Or it jumped off the couch and broke its leg. It’s hard to tell that lack of UVB was the real cause of the problem. The big thing is that your breadie uses UVB in the process to make vit D3. There is not a whole lot of study done yet on if supplements provide enough D3 and more than just D3 but the correct D3 that they can use. On top of that their bodies are made to do this with sunlight and heat so removing that whole process has to have an effect on the lizard. They also can see UVB lighting so removing this from their habitat is like making everyone in the world color blind. Because who really needs to tell the difference from red and green anyways right? At least this is from what I have read and the colorblind thing would be my idea of something comparable. If it matters at all zoo’s that have beardies either use sunlight or a lighting system with UVB on their beardies. I figure if someone with a degree and tons of experience is using it there has got to be a reason right?

You're preaching to the choir....

In my original message I stated that I do in fact use UV lighting and I use it for all of my lizards.

I just wanted to know how those who choose a different way go about their husbandry.

I guess the only way to solve this argument is to x-ray the beardies that have gone several years without UVB lighting to check for bone density. I have some adults that have not seen natural light in almost 5 years...perhaps they would be a good candidate?

Jamie

It woulnd't only be not natural sunlight but no source of UVB rays all together. I cannot find any information on the powder form of D3 really working in lizards. I know a lot of people are using and I do too just looking for that study on it. Anyone have it so i can read it?

Sticky Tongue Farms recommends not using the indoor formula (contains D3) for Beardies because they eat leafy greens which contain D3. If they have sun or uv, they say it is not necessary and are concerned that is it too much D3. I do not use minerals with D3. I have UV lights and sun my dragons outside a few hours every week.
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