Reptile & Amphibian Forums

the anery is very shiny black, and the axanthic has nice dorsal and blueish sides

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Jeff Benfer
gartersnakemorph.com

I researched the differences between Anerythristic and Axanthic a while back and discovered they were eliminating the same color producing genes, the Xanthaphores. The Xanthaphores produce both red a yellow colors thus why you never see Anerythristic animals producing yellow colors or Axanthic animals producing red colors. They are normally named for the primary color being reduced such as the Axanthic ball pythons, and the Anerythristic hondourans (hondourans aren't a total elimination of red color but nobody wants to try to say hypoerythristic). I noticed a long time ago there was both Anery and Axanthic garters of the same subspecies if I remember correctly the eastern garters. I was surprised by this and even more surprised to see they looked different. Do you or anyone else that reads this know why this is or can explain this? I have assumed it was different strains of the same Xanthaphore eliminating genes, like the different types of anery cornsnakes (Anery A, charcoal or anery B, Lavender) Like the different strains of albinos. None the less it makes the possibilities of the double recessives practically endless like the different types of snows in the cornsnakes (snow and opal). I was delighted to see them both to say the least.

This is a very hairy subject at the very least. Right now I don't believe that we know "EXACTLY" what is going on for sure at the genetic or biochemical level to say positively what animals are exactly what or specifically what pigment cells are deficient, ect. ect.. At this point is it names to best discribe what is seen visually and it is a guess and to put terms and names to differentiate between forms. They may in fact prove to be two different forms of anerythristic, or two different forms of axanthic. If you want to get techical about your discription, actually xanthophores produce reds and yellows (primarily refered to yellows), erythropores produce reds,purples (primarily refer to reds).
With regards to historic use in the snake world of naming morphs. Classically anerythristic is used if predominantly reds have been removed from the reference wild type. Axanthic is used if primarily yellows were removed from the wild type. Clearly there is a lot of gray area and argueably some misnomers have probably occured.
For now these terms are used to decribe these two plains morphs (T.radix).
To my knowledge there is not an axanthic eastern?
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Jeff Benfer
gartersnakemorph.com

In addition there is some gray when describing anery versus melanistic, the line can get very blurry to say the least. Just remember they are merely terms to reference different proven genetically inheritable traits as best as possible. When specific genetic and biochemistry studies are done terms may change if need be.
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Jeff Benfer
gartersnakemorph.com

From my understanding the Erythaphores and Xanthaphores are in the same locale without one you don't have the other. From what I've read some biochemists or microbiologists don't recognize them as a separate color producing gene.

This is true, you are correct, many just acknowledge the group of/as xanthophores, however for a long time ery and xan have been/were seperated, or ery was considered a subset of xan.
I'm just giving you some history on how the termonology has evolved and what the meanings of the two terms are generally recognized as, not argueing semantics, don't get hung up on what is "right" and what is "wrong" because, there is science and then there is marketing, and like I said some unintentional misnomers may/probably have occured, but once something is named and marketed, it's hard to change even if later the science says otherwise, but sometimes changes in descriptive names for genes/morphs can and do change with proper evidence through research.
It's interesting though, that you are interested in the subject, because I myself as a biochemist/molecular biologist had wrestled with these same issues with naming of snake genes and if wondered things were really accurate, what are the rules, who makes the names, what are the qualifiers ect.ect. that you are, so I can appreciate your interest to understand and justify, and all I can say is sometimes you just have to follow the herd and go with the flow and things will work themselves out in time.
It's good discussion though anyway.
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Jeff Benfer
gartersnakemorph.com

I couldn't agree more with everything you said. I come to the same conclusions just go with the flow and what everyone else names them. It sometimes makes it confusing though when it's the same exact morph using both terms such as the Anery and Axanthic brooks kingsnakes. I deemed the naming to be either that of whoever first produced them decided to call them or of course the hobbiest's terminology of what predominant color is missing (Anery = lacking red & Axanthic = lacking yellow). And I coudln't agree more on it making for a great discussion. Any time you bring this subject up you are bound to get plenty of imput and opinions from somewhere. Even being such a unimportant detail I still find it a pretty fascinating subject. Maybe because I did put so much effort into figuring it out. Then I was terribly disappointed to find out the truth behind the matter hahaha. I really apreciate the discussion, too bad we coudln't have roped in any more opinions on this one. BTW beautiful snakes!!! I do want a pair of the anery. It's always been my favorite gene.

It is an interesting subject, but the symantics can seem somewhat meaningless and confusing, especially when you first look around, but I think what will be fascinating in the future is when the genetics are mapped out and biochemical pathways that are effected are detirmined and characterized, and then how and what proteins, enzymes, and pigments these genes effect when they interact with each other in the various designer combo morphs. Then descriptions of genes may be more specific and have more meaning and carry more weight. Maybe there is a grad student somewhere working on this, although I would guess funding may be an issue right now.
Cheers
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Jeff Benfer
gartersnakemorph.com

n/p
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Jeff Benfer
gartersnakemorph.com

Jeff,

Great shots, I have trouble capturing the blue color in the axnthics. Thanks for sharing w/ us.

Scott