Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So who tried to breed super jungles this year what sex did you use and were you sucessful?

seems everyone avoids answering that question as far as i know its still not been done. and im betting it never will. just my opinion of course but theres really no reason why NO-ONE has done it!!!!

Such a shame. I just read the super jungle thread over at redtailed boa forum. It's very obvious that if someone was sucessfull the news would be out. How many people do you think have been trying?

IMO and could easily be wrong is....

The "Jungle" gene may very well NOT fall into the neat pidgeon hole genetics we like to think of. I would NOT be surprised at all to find out Supers have been bred and the outcome was NOT all jungles in the litter. That would be a obvious reason nobody has disclosed any results!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Hi Dave,

I've heard that position before, but admit I don't totally understand it. It would seem that if someone had produced from Super Jungles, and didn't get a full litter of Jungles, wouldn't that still be better than letting everyone assume they were unable to reproduce at all? To me, the Super Jungles are visually stunning animals in their own right. And even if they only produced litters that were 50% Jungle, that'd be better than allowing them to be assumed infertile.

It would be a problem, as you said, with the pigeon holed genetic assumptions that Supers would produce entire litters of Jungles, but denying that outcome (if it were true) doesn't make the Super Jungles less attractive as breeders, because otherwise, people are jumping to the conclusion that they are somehow completely incapable of reproducing.

Have I totally twisted and confused the argument for disclosing sucessfull breedings of Super Jungles, even those with unexpected results, or is there another piece I am missing?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Mark

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uncommonboa.com

My thought.....Peter Kahl and anyone else that has alot of money invested have probably taken sperm samples to see if their super jungles have viable sperm.

I would be ok buying a super jungle even if breeding one only produced half supers. Hell even if there were only 2 supers in the litter and the rest were just jungles.

I think upon purchase it would be wise to ask if there would be any reason that the snake couldn't produce.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is straight from Pete Kahl's website...

"Jungle Boas originated in Sweden and were produced by a good friend of mine by the name of Lars Brandle. He had purchased a very large boa with a zigzag (for lack of a better description) pattern down it's back from a Zoo in Sweden. He bred this animal to a normal boa and produced some jungles and normal looking boas from the first breeding. He then bred one of the jungle males back to its mother and produced some super Jungles and jungles. Also a jungle was bred to a normal last year here in the states and half of the babies were born jungle. This proves finally that this is NOT a simple recessive genetic trait but dominate. We are scraping the term heterozygous for jungle, possible heterozygous for jungle boa constrictor. There will be jungle boa constrictors and super jungle boa constrictors. In other words the old jungle boas are super jungles and the possible heterozygous with the zigzag pattern are jungles. "

If one takes that as a true statement then Pete bred supers way back in the day when he first got them. ie what he originally called Jungle Boa's were actually Super Jungles. Those Super Jungles are what he used for breeding stock and we all know Pete has produced a lot of Jungles over the years from those original animals..
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

a freind and I were discussing this very same subject this weekend.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I, and another boa breeder (Larry Petty, Sunshine State Exotics), directly asked Pete @ daytona 2008 if he had ever produced with a super jungle. He was very quick to answer no, he has not.

Also - he doesn't say anywhere in that excerpt that he successfully produced from a super-jungle... just that they were indeed produced.

I guess, if we want to be really straight about things, we don't know if they are actually even "supers" until someone has undeniably produced a full litter of jungles from one.

It's not a huge issue for me personally as I love jungles regardless of the genetics behind them. I am keeping my ears open though.

When I first read the info on PK site I also held the opinion you hold.
Later I re-read that info plus I believe there is more info on PK
website which further clarifies these breedings.
So from the further clarification I reached a knew conclusion that
he imported both Jungle and Super Jungle.
The Super Jungle never bred successfully for him .The Jungle (Het) did breed successfully.
This is when he came to the conclusion it was Codom trait and that's "LOL" as far as the info appears to go,LOL
I maybe completely wrong about this but I seem to remember searching for everything
I could find about this subject on that website.
So these are the conclusions I came up with whether
right or wrong I don't know.
I still think we will get some answers before
this season comes to a conclusion !

. . . Lar M

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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

Wow... this topic has advanced beyond repetitive!

Every week there's someone else on this forum drawing attention to the fact that within the last 7 days, nothing has changed! lol

So, come clean with me... Are you guys all friends? Is there a "let's start crap on the boa forums" club that we all need to be aware of? lmao Just messing around... I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just being sarcastic. I don't know any of you who have started these threads (repeatedly) over the last few months.

Look, there are a few ways to see this issue:

1) Today's breeding stock of super jungles that are of apparent appropriate age and health are infertile (or not truly of appropriate age and health), both males and females. For this to be true, one of two scenarios have to be true:
1a) inheriting the jungle trait from both parents leads to sterility
1b) the jungles have not yet been outcrossed enough to yield offspring (super jungles) strong enough or with enough drive, or mojo, or whatever, to reproduce in captivity. For this to be true, breeders would have to be pairing up jungles that aren't necessarily the best and most fit parents (not outcrossed enough, poor muscle tone, raised with a "feed to breed" mentality, etc..), and I just can't see that EVER happening. I mean, this is about the animals, right? Not money!?

2) We've got the genetics wrong and there is no such thing as a "super" jungle.
3) We haven't given this issue enough time to come to fruition. Be patient young grasshopper and please give it at least 8 days this time before coming back to the forum to stir the pot!
4) Something else I am not currently thinking of

IMO, I think it's #3 or 1b. Or a combination of the two.

So anyway, that's all been irritating me like an icepick in the back of my head for weeks now and I finally decided to take a few minutes and spew it out. Sorry about that...

jb
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Jonathan Brady

That's funny!

I had no idea untill today that this topic was much discussed.
I have just recently gotten back into boas.been 9 to 10 years for me

according to kahls site he's been producing since the early 90s....just how much outcrossing has happened in nearly 20 years?come now I think that is out of the question.

If I remember correctly it was a Salmon Super Jungle. Thats how Jeremy got the Jungle Salmon Motleys..

Thanks
Mike

Talk to us buddy!!!
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Kenny Bowman

"Symetry Exotics"
Honesty is the only route to TRUE respect, anything else is unacceptable....