Reptile & Amphibian Forums

150,000 burms loose in the Everglades?!? Read this article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090528/od_nm/us_everglades_pythons

Maybe we need to accept their science as factual?? After all if there are already 150,000 burms in the glades, one could easily argue there is no point in passing legislation to prevent owning what is clearly thriving in the wild. Kinda like banning owning cats, after all, they are a much more significant feral population problem!! Isn't this like trying to close the barn door AFTER all the horses are out. With 150,000 already on the loose what impact could a few more have? Oh yeah, if there were no more intoduced the problem will go away?? I think not!!!

BTW, in the same article they talk about non-native rodents being a problem as well.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Maybe the "invasive" snakes will eat all the "invasive" rodents and cats?

Tigers. Tigers and burms are natural enemies, releasing the tigers will take care of the burms. However, this poses a new problems now, getting of the tigers then? Well that answer is simple- elephant seals. No self respecting tiger is going to mess with those and they will migrate back to burma.

Problem solved! XD

In my opinion and I may get killed here for it, the fact that this problem is being addressed in Florida is a good thing for the rest of the country. I believe that the Burmese Python problem in Florida(factual or not) is a major contributing factor if the not the MAIN driving factor behind HR669. And if states regulate what they feel works for them, in the long run, it will be better for everyone because the federal government will stay out of it. Burmese and Retics with some others became illegal in NY in January 2005 and they cant even survive here. I have'nt seen any of the links as far as the writing of the bill proposal is conerned but it seems like they are saying 150,000 are loose or let loose in Florida. Inflated numbers you say? Burms lay like 30-50 eggs no? They become sexually mature in what? 3 to 5 years, less? Pythons incubate their own eggs correct? Doesn't this make nest raiding a non factor? Say a clutch of 30 babies are successfully hatched out. Hatchling Burms are I dont know, 24 inches or so and able to eat adult mice. With a good food supply(and in FLA I'm sure there is an endless food supply) they can reach what? 7 feet in a year? That puts them on the top or near the top of the food chain pretty quickly correct?. That gives all thirty of them an outstanding chance of survival in general right? The process is repeated in another three or five years. You get the point and all I'm saying is I can see it being a problem. I'm against any sort of regulation but I am very very much for RESPONSIBLE ownership. It starts and ends with us. Just food for thought. Mike Panichi
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honesty is my only policy

Hi Mike,

I won't attempt to kill you, but I do disagree with some of what your are saying. The assumption that the pythons are a "problem" or "destructive" is just that, an assumption, at least right now. There is no real evidence that they have an overall destructive effect on indigineous wildlife. One or two hand picked anecdotes of stomach contents is not evidence, it's propaganda. What about all the captured pythons that have had feral cats in their stomachs? Feral cats are known to be very destructive to local wildlife. And what about all the animals that use pythons as a food source (ie, gators, raptors, indigo snakes, Florida panthers, etc.)?

Also, I'm not sure I understand your point about HR669. These guys are going to use this to push S373, which is Federal legislation that will list (I believe) ALL pythons as injurious
under the Lacey Act.

Also, imo, it is absolute bs that irresponsible owners are the main cause of the pythons being in the Everglades. That is propaganda being used to push the Animal Rights wacko agenda. Don't buy into it! It just doesn't even pass the common sense test. All the facts point to Hurricane Andrew being the major cause of the python proliferation. VPI has some good publications on this:

http://www.vpi.com/publications

No one wants or is promoting irresponsible ownership. The people pushing these laws don't even want responsible ownership, they want NO ownership of snakes. The same "biologists" behing
this have already classified boa constrictors and ball pythons as "invasive" and "inurious."

Thanks,
Ed

>>In my opinion and I may get killed here for it, the fact that this problem is being addressed in Florida is a good thing for the rest of the country. I believe that the Burmese Python problem in Florida(factual or not) is a major contributing factor if the not the MAIN driving factor behind HR669. And if states regulate what they feel works for them, in the long run, it will be better for everyone because the federal government will stay out of it. Burmese and Retics with some others became illegal in NY in January 2005 and they cant even survive here. I have'nt seen any of the links as far as the writing of the bill proposal is conerned but it seems like they are saying 150,000 are loose or let loose in Florida. Inflated numbers you say? Burms lay like 30-50 eggs no? They become sexually mature in what? 3 to 5 years, less? Pythons incubate their own eggs correct? Doesn't this make nest raiding a non factor? Say a clutch of 30 babies are successfully hatched out. Hatchling Burms are I dont know, 24 inches or so and able to eat adult mice. With a good food supply(and in FLA I'm sure there is an endless food supply) they can reach what? 7 feet in a year? That puts them on the top or near the top of the food chain pretty quickly correct?. That gives all thirty of them an outstanding chance of survival in general right? The process is repeated in another three or five years. You get the point and all I'm saying is I can see it being a problem. I'm against any sort of regulation but I am very very much for RESPONSIBLE ownership. It starts and ends with us. Just food for thought. Mike Panichi
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>>honesty is my only policy

Ed I believe you hit all the major points and the idiot-ology (LOL)
behind the legislating.
I don't know about the Burm numbers in the Glades. My guess is this, they've
inflated these numbers 3-5 times what the actual number is.

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

Thanks Lar. There are a lot of disturbing aspects to all this, but like you you said, probably the single most disgusting piece of propaganda being pushed is that the Everglades python population is a result of irresponsible owners commonly releasing their snakes into the wild. Even many snake hobbyists seem to believe it without question.

Thanks,
Ed

>>Ed I believe you hit all the major points and the idiot-ology (LOL)
>> behind the legislating.
>>I don't know about the Burm numbers in the Glades. My guess is this, they've
>>inflated these numbers 3-5 times what the actual number is.
>>
>>
>> . . . Lar M
>>-----
>>Boas By Klevitz
>>Boas By Klevitz
>>

And to paraphrase Tom C.

Burms are alrady in the glades, likely in huge numbers. Legislation won't make them go away!!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

... you know banning snakes will prevent huge burm populations from arising in the wilds of Ohio, Maryland and northern California!

Thanks,
Ed

>>And to paraphrase Tom C.
>>
>>
>>Burms are alrady in the glades, likely in huge numbers. Legislation won't make them go away!!!
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
>>36.51 BRB
>>29.42 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Unless Burm are way more intelligent than boas, I simply can't see them being able to read and understand the legislation.

I can't even get my boas to read about and underastand their own breeding cycles and that's written in plain english.

oh oh oh, I know, we need a rather large government grant - ESL for snakes!!! Either that or we need to bring in Harry Potter to have a chat with them.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

LOL, I vote for Harry Potter. Maybe his kids will know Parceltongue as well, and then he can charge breeders a fee to ensure successful breedings when he or his kids visit to advise the snakes what to do!! LOL

>>
>>I can't even get my boas to read about and underastand their own breeding cycles and that's written in plain english.
>>

Just takes practice...

np

This irritates me to no end. These people actually believe ( or obviously want others to believe) that several
hundred residents in Florida drove down to the Everglades just to release their Python there.
The Pythons certainly could not have made their own way from all
over the state to the Everglades themselves.
Far too many highways and obstacles in my oipiion
That Chip Snow guy I heard he's making a pretty good living off of
the back of this hype.
He's got years of income a head due to to all of this unproven hype.
This is all part of Senator Nelson Press Hype to get Salazar on
board with Python Ban S373

. . . Lar M
Everglades swamped with invading pythons

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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz