Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If the burgandy albino hatchlings look "just" like ultramel's as hatchlings then we know that they could be the same morph. I have been told that it is "possible" that the burgandy albino goes through a color change as it matures. If it starts out looking like an ultramel and overtime changes to the burgandy? Hmmmmmmmmmmm, we must wait to find out. In the mean time we do know that the established caramel lines have blushing and fading along with changing as it matures into a much lighter animal in appearance. Does the ultramel do that also? And of course we know how amazing the "caramel glow" is. If the burgandy albino and the ultramel are not the same, who cares, we would have three awesome morphs in the same color family, burgandy's, caramels, ultramels. NOT BAD AT ALL.

Does anyone with criders and ultramels have hatchling photos and current photos that they could post for comparison? Caramels change a lot from hatchlings to yearlings etc. it would be nice to compare these morphs more closely to appreciate their own unique attributes.

-----
Proud supporter of USARK and Kingsnake.com
“We stand together or we fall apart”

Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid"
David Coverdale

Asked sort of the same question on this post ;

Link

Here's a Crider animal as a hatchling (photo taken by Eric Crider and male is on the left)

Here's the same male photographed a week ago. He is about 2 1/2 years old I would guess.


-----
Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

Matt,

Very nice, you can see the change in color. The color is much less intense as the animal ages but it still retains a nice overall more subdued coloration. Do you have a caramel of about the same age to compare them together? That would be interesting because caramels tend to increase or intensify in color as they age as they also lighten up. The crider also seems to lighten but with less intense chroma. If the crider is a burgundy albino then they are very different from caramels in appearance as they age.

Matt, Any thoughts on these differences from your experience? BTW, thank you for posting your photos, very helpful.

-----
Proud supporter of USARK and Kingsnake.com
“We stand together or we fall apart”

Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid"
David Coverdale

I think that as with 'most' ball morphs they get less intense color-wise as they age. This guy has lost the lav and orange look and has a more yellowish look now. I'm still not convinced that the ultramels, criders, and Tracy's snake are all the same. I believe Tracy got hers as an adult so nobody can say what it looked like as a baby. The ultramels and criders are almost identical but I have yet to see an ultramel with black eyes or a Crider with red eyes...but I understand that the eye color can be different within the same morph.

But no matter what...they are all very interesting to me as is the genetics I am still learning about!
-----
Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

Matt,

Great information from your experience. Your thoughts are very helpful. Did the Crider and the Ultramel both come from Africa as the so called “African Caramel line” or were they represented as “different” from each other? Did the Ultramel originate from the same source as the Crider?

The Barkers say that their female Burgandy Albino is fairly old hence the reason they are not sure what it looked like when it was younger. The Crider, Ultramel, Burgundy Albino and Toffee ball are all very beautiful. I realize that a lot of people have insight into the many morphs we are all working with but the fact that these morphs we are speaking about specifically are new to us and their genetics are still not known "meaning how they relate to each other if they do?" shows how the simple recessives for example take years to figure out and establish the pieces of their puzzle.

The morphs list is still incomplete, what a phenomenon.
-----
Proud supporter of USARK and Kingsnake.com
“We stand together or we fall apart”

Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid"
David Coverdale

From what I know the original animal from what's now known as the Crider line was imported many years ago before the exporter was really keeping anything for himself. The 'Ultramels' are fairly new so I don't see how they could be related. They could be like lessers and butters where they are two different lines of the same sort of morph.
-----
Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

I know that you have worked with the Crider line for a while. I appreciate your comments. Please keep us updated with what you hatch this season. The Criders are beautiful.
-----
Proud supporter of USARK and Kingsnake.com
“We stand together or we fall apart”

Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid"
David Coverdale

Thanks but it's not mine as I bought it from Eric and it went to another collector...but I will be selling the offspring from it. There should be some hets available this season starting in about a month.
-----
Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

excellent, best of luck with those hets and also with your season.
-----
Proud supporter of USARK and Kingsnake.com
“We stand together or we fall apart”

Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid"
David Coverdale

Thanks...you too!
-----
Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles