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Lance and I went out to West Texas for 10 nights. The weather has been a blessing and curse with lots of rain and cold temps. Here is what we observed during our trip

TMTC - Night Snakes
1 - Long Nose
1 - Transpecos Rat
1 - Devils River Blackhead
3 - Assorted Tantilla
2 - Rock Rattlesnakes
5 - Diamondback Rattlesnakes
2 - Black Tail Rattlesnakes
1 - Dor Transpecos Copperhead
1 - Box Turtle
TMTC - Centipedes
TMTC - Millipedes
And oh 1 Alterna...

Thanks so much to Ruth and Roy at the Outback Oasis. They always go above and beyond. Congrats to everyone else who ventured out this past week for memorial day and observed lots of wildlife.

Last thanks to Lance!

Sounds like you guys had a pretty good trip! And your right...the Engeldorf's are gracious hosts and good people for sure!

Congratulations. That is one heck of a trip.
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South Texas Herps

No pics??

I know some are wondering and may ask, how is enforcement this year. I can tell you that the deputy's in Sanderson are out in full force. They were very polite and most were just curious to see why so many people are interested in those slithery snakes. No tickets were given that i know of while we were out besides a car pulled over for speeding. Here are some things to consider before heading out this year.

1. Sanderson has several new deputies this year. Lets try to make a good impression on these guys if we can. We spoke to the younger one in person and he was very friendly and polite.
2. Border patrol spoke to us several times and we were up front about what we were doing and staying and they were just fine with it. I would advise others to do the same.

Best Wishes to everyone.

StevenX

Hey Steven. We also met a young deputy in Sanderson the week we were there. He pulled up to us on the East side of Sanderson around 3 a.m. He politely asked what we were up to. We explained what we were doing and got a little laugh from him. He said he wasn't judging us and asked if we had seen anything and even shared some stories of recent rattlesnakes he had seen moving. We also had a conversation with 10 or so border patrol agents at Bakers Crossing that had just caught an illegal camping there. They were in the process of looking for the others along the banks. We told them we were photographing wildlife and they thought that was cool. We spoke to them for probably 10 minutes. All were nice to talk to. There was also a female game warden there. She never asked what we were up to. She just smiled and waved as she left. Chris

Sounds to me like some more positive experiences. Each positive encounter helps us paint the CORRECT picture that herpers and enthusiasts are responsible people who enjoy wildlife.

Thanks CrestedCrazy for the report.

Best Wishes,

StevenX

All our experiences out there were definitely positive experiences and Nathan Hall, Mike Davis and I hoped to set a good example. We were curtious and polite and honest. One of the worst things you can do is try to B.S. them. We had no animals in our posession and no gear on us other than flashlights and cameras in hand. I hope everyone that goes out there has the same positive interactions with local officials and has as good a time as we had. Definitely our best trip ever.

Chris Drake

>>One of the worst things you can do is try to B.S. them.

I agree, but I think this is where the problem lies. This whole "observing wildlife" is a ruse we have created to allow us to keep hunting in spite of the new (stupid) laws. I know of several individuals who were out "observing" wildlife who came home with some of the wildlife they were observing.

When we tell them we are only observing, we are saying that we have absolutely no intention of collecting anything, regardless of how cool it is and regardless of whether we think we would get caught or not. How many of us really mean that?

I hate this law and made my phone calls and emails to try and get it changed, but I also don't like the kind of tongue-in-cheek flippancy with which some herpers are treating it. I have talked to a couple of people who hadn't changed anything since last year except the semantics.

So Steven/Lance, what happened to the alterna you observed? Don't answer that.

God I hope they will change this stupid law next year!

Chris
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Chrish, Since I dont know you I am trying to understand the purpose of your post... All I can say is that there are many folks in West Texas all with different objectives. Some are out with the purpose of research. Others are out for educational reasons. Most are enthusiasts. It is up to each to abide within the laws and guidelines of the state. It is not my place to investigate each persons reasons for being out west. All I can say is that Lance and I followed the rules.

Best Wishes,

StevenX

Steven,

I'm not trying to make any sort of insinuation about your (or Lance's) motives or behavior. Sorry if it came out that way. (Wait, on second thought, I may want to make fun of Lance a little bit. )

I'm just pointing out the sort of tongue-in-cheek approach that we have been reduced to. I was out on a quiet West Texas road last week. I ran into another herper who told be about the two alterna he had "observed" over the last week. He and I both knew that the way he was using the word was sort of a "nudge-nudge-wink-wink" say of saying he collected them.

My point is that the law doesn't seem to have changed many people's behavior, it has just pushed them underground about it.

Chris

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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Chrish, I dont doubt that some will take chances. I can only hope that LE continues to be understanding.

- On the subject of Lance... Doesnt he have a nick-name? I give him crap all the time. Ask him how much sleep others get around him for instance..? NONE!!!!!!

But he is my best friend so what can you do...

Take Care,

StevenX

>>- On the subject of Lance... Doesnt he have a nick-name? I give him crap all the time. Ask him how much sleep others get around him for instance..? NONE!!!!!!
>>
>>But he is my best friend so what can you do...
>>
>>Take Care,
>>
>>StevenX

Yeah, but when I was out herping with Heidi he weighed about 90 pounds dripping wet! LOL. I don't think he snored back in those days.

Chris
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Steven,

I'm not trying to make any sort of insinuation about your (or Lance's) motives or behavior. Sorry if it came out that way. (Wait, on second thought, I may want to make fun of Lance a little bit. )

I'm just pointing out the sort of tongue-in-cheek approach that we have been reduced to. I was out on a quiet West Texas road last week. I ran into another herper who told be about the two alterna he had "observed" over the last week. He and I both knew that the way he was using the word was sort of a "nudge-nudge-wink-wink" say of saying he collected them.

My point is that the law doesn't seem to have changed many people's behavior, it has just pushed them underground about it.

Chris

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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

The first time I replied KS crashed and I didn't think it would go through. Choose your reply, they say basically the same thing.

Chris
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Steven,

It wasn't a personal issue with you or Lance (although I don't have anything against making fun of Lance! ).

I was simply pointing out that this law has made liars out of many of us who used to like to be honest and cooperative with LE.

I talked to a guy on the road the other night who told me about the two alterna he had observed within the past week. It was very clear from his tone of voice that he had collected them since he was happy that it was a pair. I knew he had collected them and he knew I knew it.

So we (as a group) are disregarding the new law in reality but using the ruse of "observation" to hide our intent. I know most of us have no desire/tendency to catch anything, but if that right something comes across our paths, we would probably do more than "observe". I know I would.

That's all I was saying. When I say we, I mean me too. I went out hunting just like last year. But if stopped by LE, I would have lied I guess.

I'm glad LE doesn't seem to care about enforcing this stupid law.

Chris
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

>>Chrish, Since I dont know you I am trying to understand the purpose of your post... All I can say is that there are many folks in West Texas all with different objectives. Some are out with the purpose of research. Others are out for educational reasons. Most are enthusiasts. It is up to each to abide within the laws and guidelines of the state. It is not my place to investigate each persons reasons for being out west. All I can say is that Lance and I followed the rules.
>>
>>Best Wishes,
>>
>>StevenX

Also, as I've said before and it keeps getting deleted. It's "not illegal" to collect herps. The ROW is where it becomes illegal. You can collect from private property as usual. I think some of the fustration is that everyone acts as though collecting is illegal.
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Steve W.

So if the snake is on the road you can only take pictures of it but not collect it. However once you have sufficiently flashed it a few times it will flee from the road on to roadside property where it can then be collected if you just follow it? I am not sure as to how the law works but can you just follow it until it is somewhere it can be collected?

James

Good try but not quite correct. You can not pick it up or collect in anywhere within the right-of-way. The right-of-way extends up to the fence line. If you cross the fence, then you are trespassing on someone's private property.
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Gerald Keown
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
www.southwesternherp.com

>>Also, as I've said before and it keeps getting deleted. It's "not illegal" to collect herps. The ROW is where it becomes illegal. You can collect from private property as usual. I think some of the fustration is that everyone acts as though collecting is illegal.
>>-----
>>Steve W.

I don't think anyone misunderstands that. The problem is that historically 99% of all alterna have been collected on roads and ROWs. Hunting there is now illegal.

This is confounded by the fact that there is no public land in west TX, so in effect, unless you have the permission of a private land owner, you can no longer legally collect in West Texas.

I've spent a lot of time legally hunting on private lands in West Texas in some great habitat and the only alterna I've ever seen have been on roads or ROWs.

Chris
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

I believe it is a push to get us on private land for a huge profit, or to be turned down flat when we ask permission by the land owners.
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Todd Hughes

I think here is where the lack of understanding lies. When a state creates roads through hills or mountains we get a small glimse into life way below the surface. Granted animals crawl on and off the cuts but you also get to see a snapshot of life.

You just dont get this by walking on top of hills or in washes.

Take Care,

StevenX

>>>>Also, as I've said before and it keeps getting deleted. It's "not illegal" to collect herps. The ROW is where it becomes illegal. You can collect from private property as usual. I think some of the fustration is that everyone acts as though collecting is illegal.
>>>>-----
>>>>Steve W.
>>
>>I don't think anyone misunderstands that. The problem is that historically 99% of all alterna have been collected on roads and ROWs. Hunting there is now illegal.
>>
>>>>Chris
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>>Chris Harrison
>>San Antonio, Texas

Thats correct but when this new law was created there was a talk and advertising about ranches charging a fee to hunt their private land. So what happened to that? Are people using the opportunity they have to hunt legally or are they choosing to take their chances? The reason 99% of the alterna have been collected from the roads is because they weren't doing it on private property at the time. What about now?

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Steve W.

I have property in the Davis Mtns. that I have found patchnose, racers and lepidus on. I expect there are alterna and milks there but I haven't found any yet. In 12 years I have only found 2 alterna in the Davis' on the roadside anyways so I don't think it unusual I haven't found any on my land yet. I have also hunted private land in the Xmas' and near Sanderson with no luck but both times were hot and dry so no suprise there.

If these landowners want to make a buck off snakehunters they need to understand that legalizing hunting on the public roads anywhere within about a 100 to 150 mile radius only adds to the appeal and marketability of their ranches. Many times the ranch itself will be rained out or too dry but drive 50-100 miles and conditions are perfect. We regularly drive from Motel 6 in Del Rio to Langtry or Sanderson in one night, a distance of about 60-120 miles each way, when Hwy. 277 gets rained out. Or even further from Alpine to Black Gap when Alpine gets rained out.

We know the ability to seek the correct weather conditions are vital to successful herping. I don't think the ranchers know this. The only reason nobody used private ranches before is because nobody was marketing them to us.