Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi to everyone. I'm a long time lurker, but I'm new to posting.

I have a male MO collared lizard from the eastern part of the state, which my 6 year old son has affectionately named "Rhino" (pics coming soon). My son loves the movie "Bolt".

Eve helped me earlier, but does anyone else know of a breeder who works with MO collared lizard locales? Rhino is from the eastern part of the state. I don't really know just how much MO collared males vary in different parts of the state but hopefully, Rhino's future mate will be from the same region. Does anyone here know how much variation occurs across that state?

I've worked with various species of chameleons for over 20 years, and I know that with Panther chameleons, mixing different locales is generally frowned upon, even though they are the same species. It makes sense that with easily recognizable locales of collareds, like aquaflames and yellow heads, people would not generally want to mix them for various reasons (not being as marketable comes to mind), but how is the mixing of locales viewed among the collared lizard community with other locales, such as a male Missouri with a female Arkansas, Kansas, Texas, or non-aquaflame Oklahoma collared? How far away from the eastern part of the state of Missouri would you have to go before the collareds there would be considered a different locale? The lizards themselves, of course, don't recognize state or locale boundaries. Well, I'd guess they'd have to recognize the physical boundary of the Mississippi River. LOL. But traveling from east to west in Missouri, how many locales can we truly say there are? Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Perry

Hi again, Perry.
I would think that your best chance at getting a female from MO, is to try to get a hold of whoever you got your male from. I guess another option is a nice summer road trip. How far are you from Eastern MO?
Like Eve pointed out, they are the same species, so mixing the two locales would not be bad. It is just a matter of prefference. Personally, I also like to keep things locale specific, when we can. Like Panther chameleons, when you breed locale specific, you know what to expect from the offspring.
I guess the definition of "locale" can differ from case to case. The same County, Mountain range, road, etc. For collareds, you should consider all boundaries that may isolate a population. Usually the lack of suitable habitat between two mountain ranges is enough to separate the two populations.
I think most of the populations in Eastern MO are similar in appearance, but I am not too familiar with the area.

Anyway, I hope this helps.
Nick

Nick

I'm in northern Kentucky (just outside Cincinnati, OH), so I'm not that familiar with Missouri either. It is my understanding however that the habitat in MO is pretty fragmented. For those that don't know, the habitat that you usually find collareds in MO are called "glades", rocky areas with thin soil and usually on south or west facing slopes. Many of these glades, as a result of fire suppression over the last century, have become overgrown with eastern red cedar trees, making them less suitable as collared lizard habitat. This further results in even greater isolation of each population and, of course, more inbreeding. Under these circumstances, I wonder how much effort should be put into keeping things locale specific, that is if "locale" is defined as a particular mountain as opposed to just defining it as "eastern Missouri. I know that state agencies are trying to restore the glades by cutting down cedars and having prescribed burnings to make better and more useable habitat for all the unique species that live on the glades. If their efforts are successful, then small isolated glades will become connected, becoming large glades, possibly changing the definition of what is called a "locale" in those situations.

What you're saying Nick and what's been my understanding, is that the term "locale" is used most often to let others know what they can expect the offspring to look like. It would seem that with some locales, where the variation is great amoung individuals, that there wouldn't be much value in defining it as a specific locale. Is there really any point to trying to describe Missouri collareds as being one locale if they look like the collareds from Kansas, Arkansas or even parts of Texas, especially if they exhibit the same degree of variation? Just food for thought.

You need a permit to collect collared lizards in Missouri. As a biologist who studies this species, I beg you not to take any more out of the glades. I study collared lizards, my advisor is responsible for the restoration of glade habitat through the re-introduction of fire to the landscape. He is responsible for the re-introduction of collared lizards to many glades in eastern MO. In the more remote glades, these populations are now flourishing. However it is heartbreaking to go back to several glades, some of them prime habitat, where the population was hit by herpers. Rocks turned over, lizards gone. This is a small and fragmented population. Many of the current populations are already running on a limited pool of genetic information because they were founded by so few individuals. Taking another one out may seem like a trivial impact, but it has huge consequences for the population at large. And it is illegal.

I'm working with a few parks that have started burning again about re-introducing lizards to their glades, and it is so sad that we can't put lizards on a perfect glade because it can too easily be destroyed by collectors.

I would ask to see the permits before working with any "breeders" of Missouri collared lizards- I highly doubt they actually collected those animals legally. I have to carry 5 permits myself, and they take a while to get, and all I do is capture, toe-clip, and release.

This is a population that needs to be especially cared for. I understand your enthusiasm for the animals, they are beautiful, but please, please don't do this.