Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello everyone,
I have a 7yr old milksnake that won't shed. He has been pretty healthy as long as I've had him, but recently he has been acting strange and I'm getting worried. He turned blue last Friday like he was going to shed, but he did not shed yet. I made sure to keep the water dish filled and I even recently bought him a larger one in hopes that he would sit in it.
He was acting fine earlier that week, but ever since I put a new hiding place in, it seems like I rarely ever see him out. Normal behavior for him is trying to escape for about an hour several times throughout the day, but he's not doing that.
Is he just being lazy and not coming out of his hiding place? I picked him up this weekend and noticed a few darkened almost shriveled scales and that his belly scales are partially shed but that's it, nothing else has come off. The weird scales are brownish and mostly on his belly and lower sides. I took out the new hiding place just in case and I checked for sharp spots and didn't find any. I soaked him for 20 min last night in some water. He is more calm than usual.
He just seems unmotivated to shed. How can I help him? Is there a more serious problem causing the behavior? I am totally lost as to what to even search the internet for.

I have a few ideas, but first answer these questions and i will give you my opinions.

How long has this snake been in your care?

How long is he?

What size enclosure is he in?

What substrate are you using?

What is your temp and humidity levels?

What size rodents are you feeding and how often are you feeding?

~ Mike Russo

I appreciate the help... here's my answers:

I have had him basically all 7 years, since he was a baby. I've never really measured so I tried to this morning and (he didn't want to cooperate too well) I'm going to say about 3feet long, can't get too accurate since he was not interested in stretching all the way out.

He is in a 40 gallon tank. I have a mix of rainforest bark and coconut bark right now as substrate. He has had the same substrate for at least a year.

The thing that varies is the temperature, it's usually around 76 under the heater, which may be too cold, maybe you have some recommendations. Since his last tank cracked I haven't replaced the humidity meter thing, going to get one today. I have the water bowl full all the time and I mist the tank with water almost every day, and he's been getting 20 min soaks since sunday since he did not shed.

I feed him about every week and a half (was supposed to be fed friday but he was blue as I said) and I feed small adult mice.

Any help you can offer would be great, he's never had this big of a problem before and I didn't think I changed much for him, just added the new place to hide.

"it's usually around 76 under the heater, which may be too cold"

That is definitely TOO cold. That may be part of the problem. Get that temp up to the mid 80's-90 on the warm side.
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Greg Jackson

OK, here is my opinion on what's going on with your snake..

You mentioned that your snake tries to escape several times a day for hours at a time??? This to me would mean that somthing is very wrong with your set up, the snake is hungry and hunting for food OR a combination of both of these?? Which is what i think is up here.

First a 4' hondo should be eating about 4 large mice a week to maintain proper body mass.. You mentioned that you are feeding mice but you did not say how many per feeding.. How many mice a week is this snake eating?

Second, from your photos it looks to me like your snake has scale rot.. Which is caused by keeping a dirty enclosure or keeping your enclosure too moist (PLEASE NOTE: i am not accusing you of keeping a dirty enclosure!!!) i am giving my thoughts WITH OUT ever seeing your set up. That said, the substrate you are using is very good at holding moisture, and with the temps you are keeping it does not have the opportunity to dry out. I would switch your substrate to either newspaper or aspen bedding and clean your tank out more often. Also, You do NOT need to mist your snake daily.. Who told you to do that?

Lastly, Your temps are WAY too low.. Bump up that temp!!

Good luck and keep us posted!

~ Mike Russo

Wow I feel kind of guilty for keeping him that way for so long, that's how I thought I was supposed to. The people at the store I bought him from told me all these things, which was a reptile store so I thought they would know what they were talking about.

Ok so raising temp should be easy since its on a dimmer switch kind of thing. Got a humidity meter today and will install it. What should it read?

I guess if this is the case, I bet the escaping thing is because he's hungry because he only eats one mouse. I don't think he's a hondo but I'm honesty not sure what type he is.

I will mist him less often. What should I do for him right now? Does he need to see a vet? I found one in my area. Should I continue to soak him? Is it ok to feed him right now?

Wow I feel kind of guilty for keeping him that way for so long, that's how I thought I was supposed to. The people at the store I bought him from told me all these things, which was a reptile store so I thought they would know what they were talking about.

Ok so raising temp should be easy since its on a dimmer switch kind of thing. Got a humidity meter today and will install it. What should it read?

I guess if this is the case, I bet the escaping thing is because he's hungry because he only eats one mouse. I don't think he's a hondo but I'm honesty not sure what type he is.

I will mist him less often. What should I do for him right now? Does he need to see a vet? I found one in my area. Should I continue to soak him? Is it ok to feed him right now?

No need to feel guilty, your here now looking for the right answers, which shows you have the best interest of the animal in mind..

After looking back at your pix i am pretty sure you have a sinaloan milk.. Which would require the same care as a hondo.. 2 large mice 2x a week is what i would do.

There really is no reason to mist your snake, i have over 100 here and there is not one spray bottle in my herp room.

As far as a vet goes... I am usually the first person to say a visit in order.. but, in this case i am not sure there is much a vet can do? Although, others may have a different opinion on this? I think if you change his substrate, dry him out a bit, feed him more, and warm him up you will start seeing an improvement.

I would not soak him.. But, i dont soak any of my snakes.. And i would start feeding him more tonight!

Good Luck!

~ Mike Russo

wow, that sofa is fugly... i am glad it's gone!

Thank you so much for all the help.

Ok so the tank is up to 82.6, I'm turning the thermostat slowly to avoid cooking him. Humidity seems to read around 40%. I'm thawing a mouse as I type, I hope he can see well enough to take it. I made an appointment for tomorrow anyways, it can't hurt and I want to make sure its not something worse. He's never been anyways, it will be good for him to go. I'm not sure how to go about collecting a fecal sample... we'll see how that goes... not like dogs where you tell them to go outside and go potty.

I went to petco... our local pet store that would know more went out of business and I live in a rather small town (have to drive half an hour to the reptile vet). Petco did not seem to have the bark you said to get (or maybe I missed it?). Do you think it will be alright if I stop misting it?

Since I seem to have been fed wrong information from the beginning, maybe I should check to make sure I'm doing things the best way for him.

here's what my tank looks like, minus the new large tree hide thing I took out since he started having issues:

I have been reading on the forums and everyone seems to be using the heating pads under the tank. I have a ceramic heater in the lamp thing. What is the best way to heat a snake tank? I had a heating pad before but it turned the carpet underneath it brown and cracked the tank, so I stopped using them. I've never had a stand for his tank before. The thermometer probe is near the front right corner where the white cord is, near the ground. Is that a good place for it?

Also, I've always wondered what people clip the lamp thing to? And should his stuff in the tank be moved around at all? I read something about putting hides on both the hot and cold sides. Then which side should the water dish be on?

And how often does everyone clean their tanks out? Obviously pull the poop out, but I mean do you take the branches and bark out and wash them too?

I feel that under tank heating is best, but others here use heat lamps with success..

As far as keeping your substrate.. I can only offer my opinions on this.. which i have done already.. Aspen bedding which should be available at Petco or clean dry newspaper is the way i would go..

~ Mike Russo

I guess I write too much for people to read all of it. I'm just worried about the poor guy.

I fed him a mouse and he first tried to bite himself, and then he almost ate a piece of bark but spit it back up, and then finally ate the mouse. Poor guy!

Also for bedding I have had good luck with a recycled paper product. It is highly absorbant and helps me scoop out the poo and dirty bedding easy. My snakes seem to enjoy tunneling through it. This stuff is also available at most stores that cary pet goods. I get mine at the local department store. You find it with other pet beddings, usually near the rodent supplies. I think the one I use is called critter care, I am away from my place at the moment and don't have access to the package.

A
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1 BP
4 Cal Kings 3 alb 1 het
3 Alb Corn
1 Rev Alb Nelsons

Hi! I know I'm late on this response, but felt the more input, the better.

First things First: I really don't mean to sound like a nasty person, don't take offense, but I really seriously believe in doing your (your=general population) homework before acquiring an animal. A good reference: Look up- Melissa Kaplan.

I use Aspen bedding. You can get huge, vacuum-packed bags for a really good price at Petsmart. I also go to Pets Plus. If all else fails, purchase it online.

I DO NOT mist everyday. The ONLY time I mist is when Lola (hence the username) is in shed. But, I bought a "shed tank" for her to go into. It's basically just a smaller carry tank that I put into her tank (40gal breeder tank). I lay the carry tank on its side and leave it open for her to go in and out as she sees fit, of course, keeping it humid. I also use Shed Aid, one time, as soon as I see that her eyes are hazed over.

I use a UTH, as well as 2 heat lamps, one for day (white) and one for night (red or blue light-doesn't matter). During the day, the warm side is anywhere between 85-92 degrees, the cool side usually stays around 70,( /- 1 or 2 degrees.) At night, the warm side is 72-78 degrees, (this is when I check right before I go to bed). Oh, my lamps also have clamps on them, but I don't have them hanging on anything, not a big deal. Yes, always keep a hide on each side (warm and cool) of the tank.

I spot clean the poo when needed, but I THOROUGHLY clean EVERYTHING in the tank once a month. I mean everything, The hides, the water bowl (this gets cleaned on a regular basis anyway, but just for the sake of information...), ALL of the other decorations I have in the tank. I used to use "Clorox Anywhere" spray, but I have a hard time finding it now, so I just use extremely diluted bleach (in water, of course) to clean everything, and I do an extra water rinse on everything- just to make sure.

As far as feeding, my snake is nowhere near as big as yours yet, but I feed her a hopper once a week. I'm going to have to agree with Mike Russo on the feeding. (He knows his stuff!)

Any other questions I forgot to answer, just ask. I am including a picture of my Lola's tank for reference.

How is your snake doing now, anyway?

Here he is being his adorable self... =)