Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
https://www.crepnw.com/

Dragging out the feeding soapbox.......

rainbowsrus Jun 03, 2009 11:06 AM

Screech - clunk.....

Disclaimer - the following information is based on my opinion, my experience with snakes and what I have gathered from others over the years. Feel free to agree or disagree. All I ask is to keep it civil.

One problem I see over and over again with keepers, both novice and even some of the so called experts is overfeeding. Snakes by design are opportunistic feeders with the capability to go loooooooong periods between meals and gorge themselves when food is available. Being ectotherms, they do not need anywhere near the same caloric intake as a mammal. Since they get their warmth from outside their bodies, they do burn calories to produce heat inside. Most of the calories they consume go into growth. Slow growth is muscle tissue, fast growth is fat cells.

Problems occur in captivity when the food opportunity keeps presenting itself while the long fast period never comes. This can lead to overweight, fat snakes. Some breeders will even intentionally overfeed (called power-feeding) to try and get females large enough to breed quickly. I've seen lots of pics (way too many IMO) of boas with tiny little heads and huge fat bodies. Even rolls around the vent from all the stored fat. The unfortunate reality is this leads to fat unproductive snakes. Sure it may breed a year or two earlier and because of that you might be the "first" to produce some new combo morph. But at what cost? That original animal is likely to never be a good breeder. May never produce a decent litter and likely will die at an early age. IMO fat snakes say a lot about what an individual is in the hobby for - fame and/or the almighty $$$!!!

I start my baby boas on rat pinks or hopper mice. Once eating they go on a weekly feeding regimen. If I'm low on feeders on a given week, so be it, famine time. Going a week or two or three will not harm them, just keep them lean and hungry. Through their lives I keep the prey size on the small side, if you can see the lump because you know where to look, that's OK, if you can see the lump because it's all stretched out, probably too large.

By the time they are 6 - 8 months old, I switch over to a two week schedule.

For my adults, it depends on what is going on, females recovering from producing a litter may get fed every two weeks while other females and most males are monthly. My goal is to keep my snakes lean and healthy, not fat. I've seen my females bounce back to a normal lean looking snake within weeks of delivering babies.

I know some people go with 10 and 20 day feeding cycles, I stick with weekly so each group has a feeding day.
Monday - feed all the babies
Tuesday - feed the sub adults due to be fed that week
Wednesday - feed all the adults due to be fed that week.

Wednesday is also my rodent colony cleaning day. The feeding days are designed to consume feeders from the colony right before cleaning to allow easier cleaning and give me empty tubs to cycle the rest of the feeder colony into.

A typical healthy growing up boa will have a squared off shape to it, taller than wider. Of course they are all individuals, not all are squared off. Just like us, lean does not necessarily mean chiseled 6-pack abs, but fat can never mean them.

Please feel free to comment, disagree, agree - whatever floats your boat. Right or wrong, these are my opinions on feeding..
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Replies (12)

Joel_Thomas Jun 03, 2009 11:39 AM

Dave you know we agree on this subject and I appreciate you putting it out there for people to see.

I want to reiterate your point about lean females, a lean muscular female will recover much faster from breeding and birth than one that is fat I know this first hand as I had BCI years ago that I kept on the heavy side and grew up fast (by my standards)They did not fair well under that type of care.

I did produce with them and it always seemed to take a long time to re-condition them...that is because I was keeping them in the wrong physical condition to begin with...I have learned

Thanks soap box Dave.
-----
Joel Thomas

Don't tread on me!

RioBravoReptiles Jun 03, 2009 12:39 PM

>>
>>Thanks soap box Dave.
>>-----
>>Joel Thomas
>>

.
Yeah, what he said.
.

-----
Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

symetryexotics Jun 03, 2009 12:16 PM

.
-----
Kenny Bowman

"Symetry Exotics"
Honesty is the only route to TRUE respect, anything else is unacceptable....

Treeserpent Jun 03, 2009 02:52 PM

We do want a healthy amount of fat because if the female is not eating the nutients will be pulled from the muscle tissue.But I agree the pin head weezing fat obese snakes are at a higher risk for developing health issues.

That's why Ia have developed the tread mill for snakes! j/k

rainbowsrus Jun 03, 2009 03:19 PM

Key point there is a healthy amount of fat. And a healthy amount of fat does not equate to large fat deposits all over the snake.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thomas S. Jun 03, 2009 04:12 PM

NP

Treeserpent Jun 03, 2009 07:03 PM

.

Thomas S. Jun 03, 2009 11:52 PM

>>.

charmer Jun 03, 2009 09:47 PM

What irritates me, is all the folks that give me a hard time for my choice of regimen, saying some of my boas are too small and that I underfeed them. My schedule, in regards to length of time between feedings and size of prey, is pretty much exactly like yours; except I may feed slightly larger prey to some and will feed adults sometimes 2 times per month depending on which animal or how big the prey item is.

I have sold male yearlings to a reptile store here and shortly after, another customer of mine was venting about how small the boas were that the store had for sale there based on age... to which I commented that they were my own animals. He had the typical, "Oh crap, I stuck my foot in my mouth," look. I explained why I chose the schedule, that the parents are both smaller animals, that the boas I sold were all males and meant to be lean and smaller than females, and that they were not underfed (I fed them weekly for a 4 months and switched to one feeding every two weeks), but he looked dubious. I have heard these views from another customer of mine as well. I do not believe they share my opinions on leaner (not scrawnier) being better and they are feeding their own animals on a heavier schedule for growth, also to breed them, but what can you do? These folks educate other folks regularly on proper care for boas, etc. so it does concern me at times. I have heard that several of those boas I sold to the store that have gone out into homes have grown into huge animals already. *shrug*

I have seen MANY huge, pin-headed, animals covered in rolls in the classifieds lately, and it makes me sad. Not so much in the babies, but adults mostly. I would love to educate folks properly, but struggle against those who feel I am starving my snakes by not feeding every week, or attempting to stunt their growth. Very tiring.

Long story short, I agree with you Dave!! LOL!
-----
Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.1 Sunglow (Rojo and Temperance (25% Suriname))
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
2.0 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle and Dumah)
1.0 Hypo het anery (Don Juan)
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.1 2007 Mostly striped boa (Andromeda)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.2 BPs ( Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
1.2 Blood python (Akaia, Thorn, Elliot)
1.1 Borneo Blood Pythons (Donovan and Deanna)
1.2 Children's Pythons (Spot, Freckle and Speckle)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)
1.0 Saharan Uromastyx

rainbowsrus Jun 03, 2009 10:51 PM

I get the you're not feeding sometimes but really not much. And I totally agree with....

"I may feed slightly larger prey to some and will feed adults sometimes 2 times per month depending on which animal or how big the prey item is."

My feeding "regimen" is more of a guideline that gets tailored to individuals, times of the year, breeding vs not, surplus of shortage of feeders etc. The real point is working toward having the average feeding interval/prey sized to fit decent feeding without overfeeding.

All you can do is lead the horse to the water and tell them you think they should drink. Then it's up to the horse to drink from the trough or sit their horses arse in it.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Bighurt Jun 04, 2009 06:09 AM

I totally disagree, I always find it easier to clean rat cages prior to feeding day. That way I can ensure any overstock is ready to eat. I know I should use my oldest frozen first but its so much easier to just feed fresh, particularly with my Moluccan's.

I agree with everything else...LOL

Cheers
-----
Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

mjf Jun 04, 2009 10:54 AM

... boas are designed by nature to hold their weight, thats why they are such a successful species.
Mike

Site Tools