Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I got my rats today and one male. They are too much. The male is a horn dog. He was mating the females within 5 minutes of introducing him. I was told I can use pine with no issues and my rats are sneezing from it. It bothers me and it must be bothering them. I really wanted to stay with pine because it is 5 bucks for a ton of it. Is there something better that is just as cheap. I can't spend much more money because it will start being too expensive to breed live. Also will the male stop mating ever? Will the females get any rest from him at all? Thanks for you continued support and help. It has been really fun getting into rat breeding but a little nerving too.

Thanks,
Mark

Pine is the cheapest...but some areas can get Aspen at a reasonable rate.

One possible solution, empty your bags of pine into a garbage can and leave uncovered or vented. This will allow the pine to dry out a bit and the oil will dry up. Its the oil that is the irritant to both you and the rats.

The male will stop but some can be brutal to females eventually he will become to worn out and will require replacement. Once he's proven to the females its his domain (the tub) they will settle down...and sleep...
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

Hi,

Thanks for the advice. I will start airing it out now. As for Ron Jeremy I will wait to see if he ever mellows out.

Thanks again,
Mark

Hi,

If I switch to aspen should I go with chips or shredded?

Thanks again,
Mark

>>Hi,
>>
>>If I switch to aspen should I go with chips or shredded?
>>
>>Thanks again,
>>Mark

I think the moms find the shredded better for nesting but the chips are more absorbent. There are also pine pellets that are used in horse stalls. These are super absorbent and don't have the same issues as the fresh chipped pine.

There are other pelleted beddings I have seen used, so long as you provide the nesting mom some shredded something it should be fine. I provide my females straw in the winter...so they can keep warmer.

Cheers
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

Hey,

Thanks for the info. I went down and looked at the aspen, but I just do not think it will be cost effective. I am going to try the pine for a cycle or two of pups and determine if my rats are suffering their health and production. The sani chips cost 7.00 dollars a bag and the pine cost the same except I get 10 times the pine. It will cost me about 10.00 a month in pine and about 70.00 a month in sani chips. I can go back to FT for that much of an expense. If I can breed for even a 25 percent less cost than FT it will be worth it, but if I am going to break even it will not be worth the work.

Mark

The effects of Pine on Rats respiratory system take awhile to become a problem. Considering many breeders last no more than a year... I think you will be fine. If you can get 4 litters from an adult your in business...
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

Hey,

I am planning on having 9 females always producing. I am going to try and let each female go three weeks after each birthing before getting pregnant again. If my numbers are correct 9 females with that cycle should give me 5 litters each with an average number of 10 pups would yield me 450 rats a year total. That would be just about perfect for the numbers I will need. It may be a little on the shy side but I have some back ups if I go short. I will be able to add another 3 girls if needed, but i would like to stick with 9 breeding females for my first year. I am also starting with staggering the three breeding groups. I have 3 girls breeding now. I have another three that will be breeding in 4 weeks and the last group will be breeding in 8 weeks. So in about 2 or 3 months I will be at full production.

Thanks again for your guidance,
Mark

Sounds good, couple of questions.....
Are you going with three litter "batches" for a reason? The cycle you propose (3 litters started every four weeks) is 39 litters per year or 390 - 468 babies (10 - 12/ litter) But taking away 15% for my average fizzles, that's 330 - 400 / year.

I do weekly starts of one female per male, that has the potential of 52 litters per male or 520 - 624 babies ( in reality less as a few litters will be crap, more like 440 - 530)

I'm running 13 males right now and am getting around 11ish litters a week. Typical litter size is 12 or somewhere around 100 - 130/week. That's 5200 - 6760 / year - crap I never though about it in that magnitude.

Not sure what you are feeding, I'm in a range from hatchlings to adults. In addition to brdeeding/birthing cages, you will need growout cages as well. At least one for future breeder females and likely another for a future breeder male and however many you need for larger feeders for larger snakes.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Mark,
...What are you using for cages? Rats need lots of ventilation. If you are raising them in tall cages like 10 gallon aquaria they may not be getting enough air circulation down in the bottom of the cage. Some people do okay raising them in ten gallon tanks but some have respiratory problems because the tall glass sides limit ventilation. Most large scale rodent breeders keep rats in contractor cement trays or jumbo cat litter pans with half inch hardware cloth over the trays. That way they get lots of ventilation which is healthier for the rats and also will keep odors down so you do not have to clean so often.
Good luck,
Jeff

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. Everyone on KS have been so helpful. I do not know what I would do without your help. I am keeping my rats in cement mixing tubs. I built the standard 6 tub wood rack. It is definitely the pine making my rats sneeze. They only sneeze when they stir up the pine. I am going to try the pine for a while but will probably change if the rats do not stop sneezing. Thanks again, and thanks for taking the time to write to me.

Mark

Some of the sneezing is just good old fashioned stress and will calm down with time. Adding the pine is causing it more. You could change to a more expensive, less dusty bedding for a bit and once they are settled change back to the pine....probably with few troubles.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. They seem to be already sneezing less. I have a group of ASFs and they have never sneezed. They dig in it and the burrow and roll. The rats seem to be settling down really well. They are eating like hogs. I am still not sure they are getting good water, but they seem healthy and are eating and sleeping well. I am using the edstrom vari flow nozzles. They go up and lick on them and some seem to put their tongue on it and let it flow right into their mouths. Anyway we are just being patient and making sure they are happy and healthy.

Thanks,
Mark