Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This may have been asked, but I was wondering if anyone has used the butter expression in a cross with emoryi to produce a line of creamsickles that route.

I don't have an answer to your question, but your post made me realize something, while I personally do not have any interest in producing hybrids, quite opposed to the idea actually, I can and do in some ways appreciate the thought process and sometimes even the creative results, but for me it's like a lot of things, it's a short quick fix, with long term consequences. I just wonder if any consideration of impact outside of the "one clutch" is given when people create new hybrids, maybe know one even cares anymore I guess.
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Jeff Benfer
gartersnakemorph.com

>>I don't have an answer to your question, but your post made me realize something, while I personally do not have any interest in producing hybrids, quite opposed to the idea actually, I can and do in some ways appreciate the thought process and sometimes even the creative results, but for me it's like a lot of things, it's a short quick fix, with long term consequences. I just wonder if any consideration of impact outside of the "one clutch" is given when people create new hybrids, maybe know one even cares anymore I guess.
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>>Jeff Benfer
>>gartersnakemorph.com

please list those impacts.
I breed corn/emoryi crosses and I do care about what happens in the hobby, I just want to know what these "impacts" are that all those opposed to "hybrids" bring up. And proof that they truly are a factor.
people have been breeding hybrids as long as they've been breeding "pure" but one thing you need to keep in mind. For every
hybrid bred there are probably thousands of "pure".
In order for hybrids to "take over" it would take a true concerted efort by almost every breeder out there to breed out all pure blood in evry line.. corns, emoryis, kings and anything else that may be hybridized. Not only will that never happen the numbers just don't support it happening by accident.
Do your breeder friends, do you, do I.. have "pure" corns? Yes, of course we do.
But.....how could that be?
With all of these long term consequences how could that be possible.
Remember the "long term" is here. Hybrids have been around as long as captive breeding.
hybrids are no more of a short-cut to a desired result then breeding two morphs together for a desired result.
It's the same thing..place A with B to get C.
simple.
You can't say it goes against nature because any and all captive breeding "goes against nature" be it hybrids or "pure". ALL captive breeding goes against nature.
OK, I've had my say now I'd like to hear your side.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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Jimmy, don't get me wrong I'm not a hater, like I said I can appreciate in some ways, some the results of hybrids, and no I won't say that I am agianst it because it goes against nature, you're right everything we do in captive breeding is manipulating nature. The main consequence to me is when someone buys a corn that neither the buyer or the seller are aware of the presence of other species genes, because it is unclear, and then when bred, something unexpected shows up and may cause dissapointments. It just makes for muddy genetics in my oppinion, that's all. Breeding true to species doesn't negatively effect or impact anyone else, but breeding hybrids can effect or impact those that wish to breed true, thats all I'm saying as far as impact of hybrids. I'm not saying it should be outlawed and hybridizers thrown in jail, lol, It's just not for me. To each their own oppinion.
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Jeff Benfer
gartersnakemorph.com

>>Jimmy, don't get me wrong I'm not a hater, like I said I can appreciate in some ways, some the results of hybrids, and no I won't say that I am agianst it because it goes against nature, you're right everything we do in captive breeding is manipulating nature. The main consequence to me is when someone buys a corn that neither the buyer or the seller are aware of the presence of other species genes, because it is unclear, and then when bred, something unexpected shows up and may cause dissapointments. It just makes for muddy genetics in my oppinion, that's all. Breeding true to species doesn't negatively effect or impact anyone else, but breeding hybrids can effect or impact those that wish to breed true, thats all I'm saying as far as impact of hybrids. I'm not saying it should be outlawed and hybridizers thrown in jail, lol, It's just not for me. To each their own oppinion.
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>>Jeff Benfer
>>gartersnakemorph.com

I'm not a hater either.
I just get aggrivated sometimes. Yes, there can be problems but I just don't see the numbers supporting the fears.
One thing that can bother the people against hybrids is the one thing that is actually beneficial. With hybrids becoming more popular it is less and less likely for people to sell them under false pretenses. The more they are accepted the less thier origins need to be hiden.
So, it can be good.
But there are just so many people breeding pure in every species I just don't see the non-pures taking over.
yes, to each his own.
Good luck with all of yours
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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I think that Draybar has produced some Butter Creams in the past. Hopefully he'll see this thread and comment.

>>I think that Draybar has produced some Butter Creams in the past. Hopefully he'll see this thread and comment.

actually I haven't produced them. Thought about it but ended up getting rid of my butters.
I've seen them, though. I don't think there was enough of a difference to really continue on that path.
I know it's been done. I will look and see if I can find pics.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

I found this pic.
Southwest Reptiles has produced buttercreams
As you can see, not much difference.

photo courtesy of Southwest Reptiles web site.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Nope, that pretty much looks like a Butter to me.

Thanks for posting the photo.

Wow, I stirred things up a bit with that question!! I have my own opinion on hybrids. In the case of creamsickles, they are such an ingrained and sought morph in the hobby, no one seems to mind them. However, suggest something similar with other morphs being bred into emoryi blood, or other hybrids with other species and people tend to have more of a negative opinion on the situation. I dont understand that mentality all the time. IF properly represented, I dont see that much of a big deal and you can buy whatever floats your boat. However, having kept and even breed some animals where purity was an issue (alternas for example), I do look at these animals long and hard before purchase and pass any suspect ones. Unfortunately, as Boxie suggested, unpure animals are not always being represented as such, and that does or can have an impact. To be honest, I think with corns genetic pollution of some form or another is just a way of life. Thats why when something new or different pops up, its not always obvious what genes were involved even with pure species.

By the way Draybar, thanks for the pic. Looks more like a cross between snow and butter than creamsickle!!