Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been using all nature calcium sand for years and years now and never had a problem with it at all (compaction). I don't see why everyone knocks it so bad saying, "get rid of it asap" and all that mumbo jumbo.

Lots of people skydive or play russian roulette and don't die either. But some do. To me, neither calci-sand nor the other things I mentioned are worth the risk.

common now...
lol, I listen to what ever BDlvr has to say about dragons...
But PLEASE so not put sky diving in the same boat as Russian roulette.
When it comes to sand, if there is a cheaper alternative, that has lower risks, that appears very close.
WHY TAKE THE CHANCE.

Hey Timmah,
I think impaction issues have far more to do with improper support of the dragon in general. I use a sand and soil mix and my dragons ingest it all the time. However, I keep my dragons hydrated and provide a wide temp range (75-135ish), I have never had an issue with impaction. I'll probably get toasted for this but impaction was the big issue in the 90's (thats all I ever remember reading about) but today reptile husbandry has improved so much that it can be avoided aslong as we support the dragons properly. I personally would not use calci sand simply because I think soil is more beneficial, however if it is working for your dragons...who cares what others think. In closing...SWITCH TO SOIL...haha just kidding.

yea using tile is great guys, but lets face it when sand soaks up poop and leaves you a nice little clump to pick up, on the other had when he poops in tile while you are away and rubs it all over himself and the cage and the objects in the cage everyday i am quite sure thats is just a joy.

But there are other sands to use besides calci-sand.

In the end we all have to make choices about our husbandry and take personal responsibility for our pets. Do your research and use whatever you deem most suitable for your animals.

Remember when you stay up late wayyyy past your bed time and you see the infomercials and the guy on them is telling you how much better this is than what you are already using....Like oxiclean? Yeah then you buy it and it really isn't. That is like the super sweet printings on bags of sand from pet stores.

Or when someone asks what is the big deal about this and then when you tell them they want to defend it? Just use it then...why ask?

Calcium sand has a greater risk to cause impaction. This doesn't mean every dragon kept on calcium sand is going to die of impaction, just means there is a greater risk of it. Other factors in husbandry certainly does impact the chances of impaction too, such as too low basking temperatures, dehydration, etc.

Calcium sand may have a risk of causing impaction of say...(and I am completely making this up as to my knowledge no actual statistics exist for this) 20%. Dragons with improper heat (100F or less as the top hot spot), chronic dehydration etc. may have a 40% chance to becoming impacted if housed on calcium sand. If the particular dragon is a consistent 'licker' or just likes eating sand (some dragons do this intentionally.) the odds of getting impacted coupled with bad husbandry, may be as high as 60%. There is still a 40% chance that dragon will live 10 years without an impaction.

Another consideration with calcium sand is it can accumulate over months, even years before a serious enough impaction becomes life threatening. Partial blockages could be in existence for a long time before the passage is blocked completely and no fecal matter can come through. Just think of it like cholesterol. You can live a long time with clogged blood vessels and not even know they are slowly filling up with cholesterol till you suddenly have a heart attack then learn your aorta is 90% blocked or more.

I have talked to reptile vets and one of their most frequent causes of impaction seen is ingestion of substrate or other foreign objects, be it calcium sand, crushed walnut or other particulate substrates.

To me the biggest impact of using calcium sand is cost. For the same price of a 5 pound bag of calcium sand you can buy 50 pounds of plain regular children's playsand. There is absolutely no benefit to your dragon having him on calcium sand vs regular playsand. They can't break down the sand to digest, so its no good as a calcium supplement. So I don't' see any benefit in paying extra for it.

If its just the color you like, you can buy colored sand too, though it costs more (but probably no more than buying the calcium sand in the first place). Or just dye it yourself with a non toxic dye.
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PHLdyPayne

Impaction has to do with dehyrdration and insufficient temps.

Lizards could eat and digest doorknobs if you kept them properly...
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

This is something that I have wondered also. If you look at what calci-sand (or any other calcium based sand) is composed of, it is calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate is the same substance that most calcium supplement powders are made of. Granted the granules are larger in the sand than the powder, but the dragon is able to break it down as long as the dragon does not eat the sand all the time.

I would think that calcium sand is actually better for the dragon to ingest than silica sand (children's play sand) as calcium carbonate can be processed and silica cannot. HOWEVER, if your dragon is consistently eating the substrate, any fine grained material no matter what the composition could eventually cause problems.

Silica dust is known to cause cancer. Children's play sand must now carry a warning if it contains Silica. The sand I use does not contain silica and has no warning.

Personally I think if an animal is eating any substrate then something is missing in the husbandry.

If children's playsand is not silica (and it is not calcium carbonate), what is it?

Also, I forgot to mention that just because there is not warning does not mean that it does not have silica. Unless you are paying the much higher prices of "Safe Sand" most of the sand you buy in stores (except maybe Toys-R-Us) is silica sand. Granted they may market it differently such as beach sand or something similar but it is still silica sand.

I also agree that if your animal is eating the substrate something is off, but some individuals do taste more than others and this could still be a problem.

I only buy my sand at Toys R Us. The box store sand has pebbles and other junk in it. I can't answer your other question, I'm not a geologist.

I have done some looking and have not been able to find out what Toys-R-Us sand is composed of. Does anyone know? I am interested to find out if we are wasting money on this sand that is the same stuff that is sold at home depot. I have seen washed and screened sand there that looks very good. I am pretty sure it is silica sand though.

non silica sand is basically tiny rocks. Silica can be contained in things other than sand, such as clay and dirt. Short of getting the sand tested by a chemist, there isn't any way to know for certain other than reading the label the sand came in..or emailing the company that produces it.

Though I think if you melt it, silica forms glass (not likely very clear as I am sure impurities etc are taken out when glass makers make well, nice clear window glass). Rock would probably have a higher melting point. I am not sure, only guessing here. Too lazy to google melting point for silica and common rock like granite.
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PHLdyPayne

Even a dragon with great husbandry is going to injest substrate while eating. However I think substarte injestion only becomes problematic if other needs are not met. As Robyn said earlier...they are very effective in digestion...we as the owners just half to meet them halfway.

Not if you go with my "advanced husbandry" where there is an eating area built in that does not have particulate substrate.

That is one solution. However my point was that substrate ingestion that takes place while eating is not an issue if properly supported. I would argue that "advanced husbandry" would be solving issues such as impaction with the fundamentals of husbandry (temp ranges, hydration). I'm sure your dish/bowl idea if effective, however if husbandry is not "squared off" it is simply a band-aid. I'm not saying you do not practice good husbandry BDlvr, im simply saying someone that doesn't cannot avoid health issues with a dish/bowl feeding area. -Ryan

It's not a dish/bowl. It is an area of the cage without a particulate substrate that insects will not escape from.

The "advanced husbandry" was a joke for the dirt people. lol. Mine is just a well thought out enclosure design. P.S. Don't tell, but I stole the idea from Rob Dachiu.

haha dirt people. Okay well either way...am just saying that a "feeding area with no substrate" will make no difference if more important needs are not met. Your cages are well thought out and they look good none the less.