Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When CH Yellow Bellies come in, I am inclined to believe that they are indeed a new line, probably from eggs from WC females, incubated in Africa.

However, when I see a new line Pied, Lesser, or other higher end animal, I think back to the rumor about animals being Captive bred in Africa from known lines, being sold here as CH new lines?

I am NOT in the import game, so am really not up to date on the importation process, what really comes in, in the unsorted bags, and are Captive Bred animals, produced in Africa from known lines, being sold her for slightly higher prices, as a new line, CH animal?

You know, I wonder about that sometimes.... I think I'd have to agree with you on that one. I'd have alot easier time believing that there is a new line of something alot easier to make naturally (Yellowbelly, Pastel) Than something that is recessive (Pied, Axanthic).

I dunno, just my two cents
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Coolluigi

"You can never have too many hets" - Jim S

0.1 Pastel Pos Het Hypo
1.1 Pastel
1.0 Mojave Poss Het Hypo
1.0 Yellowbelly
1.0 100 % Het Pied
0.8 50% Het Pied
1.7 Normal
0.2 100% Het Hypo (Orange Ghost)
0.2 Spider
1.2 100% Het VPI Axanthic
and soon to be more. *fingers crossed*

Being an importer I can offer a little insight..
Yes I've heard of some captive breeding going on
too. BUT West Africa still produces plenty of morphs
naturally. That includes existing morphs and new
genes..co-dom and recessive.

It's good to remember that the genes we know as
Pied,Albino,Axanthic,etc. all originated from
Africa. The genes have been there for years and
will continue to be. I'm no expert but I can offer
my 2 cents.

David Fernandez

Fernandez Reptiles

Ya. Very true dgf. I have never tried my hand at the import game, so I don't know that end of it.
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Coolluigi

"You can never have too many hets" - Jim S

0.1 Pastel Pos Het Hypo
1.1 Pastel
1.0 Mojave Poss Het Hypo
1.0 Yellowbelly
1.0 100 % Het Pied
0.8 50% Het Pied
1.7 Normal
0.2 100% Het Hypo (Orange Ghost)
0.2 Spider
1.2 100% Het VPI Axanthic
and soon to be more. *fingers crossed*

Dave,

There are quite a few mutations still being hatched from W/C animals but I also know for a fact that there is one of the largest and most well known exporters from W. Africa that use to come to Daytona to pick up morphs to take back home to breed. I even asked him why was he picking up Albinos to take back home and his words were "so I can breed them and sell them back to the US and Canadian customers". Back when I use to import Balls we would get YB's (even before most knew what they were and were purchased by a lot of the big breeders), pastels, Axanthics and many odd looking snakes. We also use to get so many mutations in when people were not into the Balls like they are today. Back when the Albino and PIEd's were first produced we use to get in Cinnies, Pastels, Axanthic, and many many more mutations that were sold to our customers as specials or weird colored animals. I went back through some of the old photos back in the early 90's and would have killed to know then what I know now about the genetics of these mutations. There is one well known Ball Breeder in the Ormand Beach Florida whose store manager from his pet store use to come hand pick all the specials and weird colored Balls from our lots and would pay the same price as everyone else which was $19.99ea retail. Back them we were only paying $1.25ea in 500 lots landed and $1.00ea on 1000 lots landed. Man those were the days.
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usark.org/join.php

....I would rather have a Bottle in front of me.....than a Frontal Lobotomy....

Rob Trenor
RK Reptiles
www.rkreptiles.com
www.rkreptiles.net
www.ballpythonmorphs.net

_____

Rob,

Good post!

I know who you're talking about overseas. I personally
don't deal with him or his animals.

Anyhow,I've heard the same thing from some guys who
imported years ago. Those were definitely the days!

David Fernandez
Fernandez Reptiles

I said the same thing about a year ago or so on here and noone would believe it. I was told by my good friend whos name cannot be mentioned on here anymore but some call him ball-mart. That some of the more subtle looking morphs may slip thru from WC eggs but the "new lines" are not that they are simply bred from the biggest exporter in Africa (as someone else said used to come to the Daytona show years ago) and sold back to the unknowing public as a new line.
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Damian Macioce
www.strongholdreptiles.com

"New Line" is just a fancy way of saying import without all the nasty connotations. I don't see any really big incentive to get a "new line" and as it's been stated they do have ball breeders in Africa - so who's to say really if it's new or same old same old.
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Tosha
JET Pythons
Toshas Blog

Herp Medicine does not equal a bottle of Baytril - Dr. Scott Stahl

For me..When say I "New Line" I mean that it is
unrelated to any established captive bloodline.
But that's me.

The CITES quota in 2009 for ball pythons..

Benin - 60,000
Ghana - 60,000
Togo - 62,500

Animals from captive breeding in Africa will make
a very small percentage of those numbers. There
are far greater numbers hatched out from eggs that
were collected. I personally have never bought an
animal from captive breedings overseas.

David Fernandez
Fernandez Reptiles

if you have bought a high end morph animal from ghana in the last 5 years than you have bought from a captive breeding program over there. Noah has a very large breeding program going on. It was funny watching him buy vision racks a couple years back in daytona, I'm sure that wasn't just to house wc gravid females. Have we all forgot how many champains/puma's were brought over in a 2 year span?
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I have a few sources. Noah isn't one of them.
Like I said before..there are a number of morphs
(established,new,co-dom,recessive)that hatch out
from collected eggs. People seem to have a mindset
that morphs only come from captive breedings.

Champagnes were established by Noah so that would be
an exporter from Ghana producing offspring from an
animal born in Africa. That's a little different than
going to Daytona and buying morphs to sell back to us
as "African _ _ _ _" You know what I mean?

David Fernandez

what the previous poster was stating is that Noah and others in africa were buying breeding stock in daytona and selling the babies created from the future breedings as "new line" animals. While I will concede that all these morphs start out as either wc animals or ch babies, since some of these animals were fetching prices over $50k, why does anyone think that Noah and others in the other bp exporting countries didn't get wise and start breeding these things as well before making them available over here to us?
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Bingo thats the name Noah hes a crooked SOB. But so many people would be for the money he screwed my buddy out of.
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Damian Macioce
www.strongholdreptiles.com

Ok, so let's say that they are hatching out animals from captive bred snakes...
think about this though, especially with codoms...
do you REALLY think they are buying their breeder females?

Probably not. So chances are they are using wild caught females.

All-in-all...you may not be getting a new LINE, but you might be getting new BLOOD...which is still good.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

>>>>
>>All-in-all...you may not be getting a new LINE, but you might be getting new BLOOD...which is still good.
>>-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

Sure, but the same can be accomplished by using any random CCB normal female. I don't see how using a WC female will help you diversify bloodlines any better than using one of the 1000's of CBB snakes already in this country.
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John Vandegrift

These guys are fishing from the same pond over and over and over again -- do you really think it's "new blood" or unrelated to the thousands of other balls they've pulled out of that same areas year after year after year?
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Tosha
JET Pythons
Toshas Blog

Herp Medicine does not equal a bottle of Baytril - Dr. Scott Stahl