Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

Well things are great. I have so far really been enjoying the rat rack. Everyone has been so helpful. My question today is this. I am using a 6 tub set up. I am using 3 tubs for three groups of females. I have decided to rotate one or two males though the females in each tub. I have one male and was wondering if I wanted to, could he sustain breeding all three groups of girls? If so I would rotate him through the tubs and always try to keep him in with no pups around. But if I have all three tubs full of kids where can I keep him? And if I have two males where can I keep both of them. I understand that each male will breed a certain group of females for life. I am cool with that. But if I have two or more males do I have to keep them by themselves when not with the females for breeding. the other three tubs are going to be for growing the rats. I am not against building a second 6 tub rack for growing and overflow and guaranteeing males or new rats that I acquire for replacement. Can anyone give me some guidance on the males.

Thanks,
Mark

It's all about timing unforunatly its your timing I can't tell you mine and let it make sense.

Some things to consider;

Gestation: 20-22 days
Estrus cycle: 4-5 days
Sexual maturity: 13 weeks
Weaning age 21 days

If you take into account the above numbers you can determine your own rotation cycle. With mature animals...

Female in tub, male introduced.
Male removed prior to birth.
Birth 20-27 days later.
Weaned 41-48 days after introduction.
2nd pregnancy capability 45-54 days.

I run 10 tubs, adding 5 more soon. I have 7 males 17 females, I run 1.2. I keep the male with the females till they are ready to pop. Females are raised together from birth, male is then seperated to his own tub, or another set of 2 females starting another 54 days cycle.

Each female births 6-9 times and is retired based on the 54 day cycle. Male is retired when he fails to perfom or the quality decreases.

Some points;

-Most males can be kept with birthing moms bearing there young.
-Most Males can be kept together, forever so long as they have never had a female.
-Most Mature males can be kept with weaned young less than 13 weeks old.

Key facets;

-Never assume anything.
-Always keep cages clean, watered, and feed.
-Breeding has concequences, daily check prevent accidental deaths and aroma from deaths.

Cheers

-----
Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

Hi,

How often do I need to clean my tubs? I was going to try and see if I could get 5 full days and then change. Right now I am on day 5 and there is no smell and the shavings look good. This is a tub holding 3 females. I am sure the more rats the faster the change. Is there a rule of thumb for the amount of rats in a tub for change out? Thanks again for all your help. You need to write a book. I will buy the first copy. Signed of course.

Thanks,
Mark

I try and clean before ever trash day but usually once a week. 1.2 and raise up tubs need cleaning twice a week everyone else once.

I find that during the cooler months I can add more shavings and stretch the grow outs and breeding tubs to the full week. Of course that's initially not later on. During the summer they drink so much its had to make it a full week. I only use 7 gal concrete mixing tubs.

My knowledge stems from years of experience as well as cross communication between other breeders.

If a book is to be written I'll provide insight but I won't be writing a book anytime soon...holding down three jobs has nothing to do with my desire to write a book...LOL

Cheers
-----
Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

Hey,

Thanks again for the replies. Awesome info for someone in my shoes. I hope many new breeders get to read our posts. One more question. How many males and how many females can you hold in one concrete tub for grow out. If you can try and give me an idea of quantity per tub and different sizes. Thanks.

Mark

>>Hey,
>>
>>Thanks again for the replies. Awesome info for someone in my shoes. I hope many new breeders get to read our posts. One more question. How many males and how many females can you hold in one concrete tub for grow out. If you can try and give me an idea of quantity per tub and different sizes. Thanks.
>>
>>Mark

I start with 10 between wean and small, big enough to feed from the tray and drink on their own. I wean them as they get larger, basically if the tub can't make it a week before a litter change, I reduce the population. I separate Male and Female as Males grow at twice to three times the rate. So long as they are virgins the males won't fight even when they get to the large mark. At which point they are ready to be frozen or eaten...
-----
Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

I forgot to ask? Can one male breed 9 females if rotated through, and if so is that like putting all my eggs in one basket? Also, if I am breeding 6 females with one male and I replace him will the new male get bullied by the females he was breeding to? Thanks again.

Mark

>>I forgot to ask? Can one male breed 9 females if rotated through, and if so is that like putting all my eggs in one basket? Also, if I am breeding 6 females with one male and I replace him will the new male get bullied by the females he was breeding to? Thanks again.
>>
>>Mark

I used to rotate a single male through 6 tubs of female each with a pair. It wears them out though, and in my experience the females don't have any problem excepting the new male.

The nice thing about the rotation is you can increase or decrease the rate of rotation and not forget with a single male. By this I mean if every week you clean cages you can simple move the male up or down the rack as the weeks progress. You can decrease this to 2 weeks to slow down the process or speed up to increase the process.

Although I find that less than a week gets harder as your chance of missing the estrus cycle increases. To counteract that when I breed in that fashion I pulled females from bins of 5 to birth by themselves. In doing so Females moved up the rack so that the top tub always had 5 and so on. The male moved down the rack ever 2 weeks the female up. If they females made it to the top and where not pregnant they got to skip the cycle or based on age meet an untimely end.

I proudly support Dave's notion that if any animal doesn't meet the intended criteria they become lunch. That being, biters, poor producers or animals that are just not up to par...meet the belly of a snake.
-----
Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

LOL "aroma from deaths"

Bee there, had to search for that!!!! Many times!!!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>LOL "aroma from deaths"
>>
>>Bee there, had to search for that!!!! Many times!!!!

I speak the truth, If I didn't check the tubs every other day you never know what can happen.

I've seen everything from pregnancy gone wrong to floods, and everything in between. Well maybe not everything...
-----
Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis