Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know monitors do not need uva/uvb, but how do they process vitamin d3

I think part of the answer lies in that many monitors are fed whole vertebrate prey and as such receive D3 in their diets, much like snakes do. To say they do not need UVB may be incorrect however, as while they will do fine without it, I have noticed increased activity levels when monitors are given UVB vs no UVB--thereby making me belive that there is a psychological benefit. That's my .02.

You're right - the ready to use D3 found in the organs of whole vertebrate prey makes up for a lack in UVB, and also, they do tend to thrive better under the UVB lights anyway.
The difference is in the type of D3 offered. When humans/animals metabolize D3 it's a multi-step process. The D3 utilized for calcium metabolism is in the liver and kidneys... and thus, feeding whole prey items allows the predator animal to utilize the D3 the prey item had already created. Well fed and high quality prey items = better for the predator.

Here's a link to an article I found super helpful. Little older, but the information is still valid.
http://www.anapsid.org/uvbanne.html

~jen
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"We call them dumb animals, and so they are, for they cannot tell us how they feel, but they do not suffer less because they have no words."
- Anna Sewell (1820-1878)

There is no reason to know how its done. Do you know how all their metobolism processes are done? So why do you want to know how its physically done when it IS done.

For Jen, No one has matched our growth, reproductive or longevity records, and we do not use UV bulbs of any type. So how do you say using UB bulbs is "better"? sir, you have to answer that.
The point is, if there is NO problem, why dwell on it. The problem is, poor basic husbandry as that creates lots of problems, including CDD. The cure is practice husbandry that does not create these problems. We have done that thru many years, hundreds of generations of many species of varanids and other lizards that are suppose to need UV bulbs.

Its funny to me that folks think if someone tells them how something works, it will benefit their animals. I think it benefits animals to practice husbandry that does not create those types of problems, then you do not have to understand how all things work. Cheers

I'm no sir, I'm a Miss, thanks.

What do you consider long-lived? What ARE your longevity records, reproductive rates, etc? Forgive me for not being intimately familiar with your successes.

So you prefer the medieval method of knowledge? Don't question why, just do it, because that's the way it's been done before? I agree that if something works, don't screw with it, but why not try and learn why? What's so wrong with knowledge? There's a depressing lack of it regarding the intricacies of monitor behavior and maintenance.

While you might have success with your monitors without UVB, supplements, or a varied diet, the average beginner is going to fail miserably.
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"We call them dumb animals, and so they are, for they cannot tell us how they feel, but they do not suffer less because they have no words."
- Anna Sewell (1820-1878)

I did not start this thread to get into another heated discousion on whether or not uv bulbs are needed as this discussion has been beaten to death.I asked FR for his information because of his track record and his success rate with monitors I thought it would be useful on a debate going on on another forum

greg

There are two excellent threads below that Frank has contributed extensively to, all regarding the UV issue. They are still on the front page, just lower, I believe.

Frank Retes is the premier monitor breeder on the planet, and one of the smartest, most intuitive reptile keepers I have ever known.

But he has smashed up, ugly wrestler ears that make him look like an ogre. (can't let him get too high on himself)

I don't recall off hand what his records are, 19 generations of one species monitor breeding? Monitors that are decades old and still healthy and reproducing? Something ridiculous like that, really. All with no UV, just the best husbandry around.

Check out the threads below, this topic was just hashed out in detail. Excellent detail : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

ShipYourReptiles.com
Pro Exotics Reptiles

Guess when I checked out the forum I didn't scroll down far enough the first time.

I don't doubt that's he's got great husbandry, I was curious what the records were. It's hard to weigh generalized information vs x number generations with no UV.

It's very interesting stuff and does go against a majority of what I've heard and read about keeping lizards.

Thanks!!
~Jen
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"We call them dumb animals, and so they are, for they cannot tell us how they feel, but they do not suffer less because they have no words."
- Anna Sewell (1820-1878)