Reptile & Amphibian Forums

To whom it may concern, I am in need of urgent help!!!

I have some questions on possessing exotic reptiles
I’m a Pennsylvania resident and had an unexpected encounter with the NJ State Animal Control. I am a animal hobbyist with over 15 years experience, and also have an bachelors degree in Animal Science. I was on my way to a reptile show to exhibit and perhaps trade my reptiles. My reptiles being an 8 inch baby alligator, 6’ Burmese python, soft shell turtle, African side-neck, and a snapping turtle. They confiscated my animals and gave me citations for each individual reptile and said that I can face fines up to $1000 for each animal and also some jail time. They also offered a flee bargain that if I told them where I illegally got the animals, and also who I was illegally going to sell the animals to, they would drop the charges.I denied the bargain because I obtained all the animals legally at the Pennsylvania Hamburg Reptile show. Now I have the appear in court as of next week..so what should I do to avoid fines and perhaps get all my animals back?

I) I am a Pennsylvania resident and all animals listed are legal and require no permits. Do I still have to get a PA or NJ permit.
II) Did I have to have a certain kind of permit to cross state lines with these animals?? Being that animals are shipped from state to state all the times??
III) Can I receive something in writing or pick up certain documents to win my case?
Thanks again , all help will be appreciated!
tawndamontez@hotmail.com

But I do not think it matters that you bought an animal legally out of state, once you transport it to a place where it is prohibited you are now in violation. Unfortunately you may be between the rock and the hard spot here.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

... of your state and any state you plan on taking your animals to. As far as I can tell you only have a violation with the gator. Hire an attorney.

Here is Jersey Law...
New Jersey State Laws Governing Private Possession of Exotic Animals

N.J. ADMIN. CODE tit. 7, §25-4.8 - Potentially dangerous species

(a) "Potentially dangerous species" is defined as any exotic mammals, birds, reptiles or amphibians or nongame species which, in the opinion of the Division, is capable of inflicting serious or fatal injuries or which has the potential to become an agricultural pest or a menace to the public health or indigenous wildlife populations, including, but not limited to the following:

Class/Order Family/Genus
Primates Cebidae - New World Monkeys
Cercophithecidae - Old World Monkeys and Baboons
Pongidae - Apes
Carnivora Canidae - Nondomestic dogs
Ursidae - Bears
Felidae - Nondomestic cats
Saura (Venomous) Helodermatidae - Gila Monsters
Serpentes (Venomous) Elapidae - Coral snakes and cobras
Viperidae - Vipers
Crotalidae - Pit Vipers
Crocodilia Alligatoridae - Alligators and caiman
Crocodylidae - crocodiles
Gavialidae - gavials
Psittaciformes Psittaculis spp. - Ring-necked parakeets
Myiopsitta spp. - Monk parakeets
Cyanoliseus patagonus - Patagonian Conures
Rodentia Cynomys spp. - Prairie dogs
Spermophilus spp. - Ground Squirrels

(b) The Department, in its discretion, may issue a permit for possession of a potentially dangerous species only after a clear showing that the criteria for the possession of such potentially dangerous species contained in N.J.A.C. 7:25-4.9 have been met.

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• N.J. ADMIN. CODE tit. 7, §25-4.9 - Criteria for the possession of potentially dangerous species

(a) In addition to the general criteria enumerated above in N.J.A.C. 7:25-4.7, every person applying for a permit to possess potentially dangerous species shall meet each and every of the following criteria to the satisfaction of the Division.

1. Education and Background: Persons wishing to apply for a permit to possess a potentially dangerous species must have extensive experience in maintaining the species desired or related species.

2. Knowledge: Persons wishing to apply for a permit to possess potentially dangerous species must demonstrate a working knowledge and expertise in handling and caring for each of the species desired.

3. Protection of the Public: The housing facilities shall also be constructed to prevent public access to and contact with the animal. The potentially dangerous species shall not be kept as a pet, for hobby purposes or in situations, which, in the judgment of the Department, could adversely affect the health of the animal or which could constitute a hazard to the public.

4. Purpose and Intent: Persons applying to possess potentially dangerous species must submit a written statement of the purpose and intent of keeping the species.

5. Housing and Feeding: Persons applying for a permit to possess a potentially dangerous species must supply a written description of the housing and caging facilities for the species required. A summary must be submitted of a continuous source of food for the specific diet of the animals. Division personnel may inspect the completed facilities to determine if the facilities are suitable for the animal. Facilities must be constructed to prevent the possible escape of the animal.

6. Other restrictions: Under no circumstances shall a person issued a pet shop or animal dealer permit possess any potentially dangerous species on the commercial premises, except in emergencies and for a limited period of time as stipulated by the Department in writing and subsequently agreed to by the animal dealer or pet shop owner, who shall assume full responsibility for the safety and welfare of both the animal and the public during its temporary storage. A potentially dangerous animal already on display at the premises of a pet shop or animal dealer and already under a permit for such display as of January 17, 1995 may remain so displayed under the terms and conditions of that permit for the lifetime of that animal.
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Andrew Wyatt
President USARK

Get yourself a lawyer if at all possible.

Make double copies right now of any paperwork you have on the animals, and the paperwork given to you by the state of NJ. Keep one copy in a safe place other than your residence, and keep one copy with you. It might not hurt to make copies of reciepts for any expenses you incurred while traveling to NJ as proof of where you were when.

As far as PA laws, unless you have a special permit of some kind (scientific, educational, etc):

If it's a native PA animal, other than a common snapping turtle, you cannot take it in or out of PA state lines or sell it in PA. If it is a native PA softshell, it was illegal to sell it at Hamburg and was sold to you illegally. There is a season in PA for snappers, and if you cannot have a snapper out of season. (Stupid, but true.) If it was a common snapper and sold to you out of season at Hamburg, it was sold illegally.

As for NJ, it's illegal to sell a turtle in NJ, period, so if you were going to sell in NJ, that's a problem. If you were headed to New York, it was illegal to sell (or have) native reptiles in NY. You have to have a permit to have a python and alligator in New Jersey - but not sure about just driving through. I'm pretty sure that big pythons and alligators are illegal in New York, but don't have the regs to back it up at this time.

NJ Department of Fish and Wildlife at 609-292 9591 or go to http://www.njfishandwildlife.com
For Animal Exhibitor or Animal Theatrical initial applications please call the Wildlife Permit Unit at 908-735-5450 or e-mail ExoticPermits@dep.state.nj.us

You want to read this and print this out:
http://www.njfishandwildlife.com/exotic_apps.htm

It states that common snapping turtles are specifically exempt from requiring a permit in NJ - so having a common snapping turtle in possession in NJ should be legal no matter what.

I didn't see anything about traveling through NJ, but I wasn't reading too closely, either. I do know that a few years ago when I did a one day exhibit at the request of a reptile society in NJ, and even coming from MD with my MD permit and legally obtained animals from MD, I had to fax in 9 pages of paperwork to display native and exotic turtles for 8 hours, and I wasn't even staying the night!

IMO, at the very least, YOUR AFRICAN TURTLE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CONFISCATED. If your softshell and snapper weren't native to PA, they shouldn't have been confiscated, either. NJ requires a permit to keep most turtles, but I think (don't quote me) there's a 20 day grace period to get your permit after you've aquired the turtle (but you need a receipt of some kind proving where and when you acquired the turtle).

That's my unprofessional opinion on the matter.

Katrina

That is terrible. Criminal...and not on your part. Talk about trampling the individual's rights...in the name of what? I don't know. What a waste of the taxpayers money.
Why don't they spend their time rounding up illegal immigrants. The ones that society subsidizes with all the social safety nets in place, paid for by citizen's tax dollars.
I'll bet you dollars to donuts New Jersey has got their fair share of illegal undocumented alien workers. I'll bet there is more economic damage done and more documented harm inflicted on society by the undocumented.
It is perverted government policy, not a matter of ethnicity or origin. The policy of a Third World Black Market Economy is just fine as long as the Middle Class pays for it while the Ultra Class reaps the rewards by looking the other way.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

How long ago did you get the animals? Obviously the python and gator were bought recently, but what about the turtles? Animals that were legal ten years ago may no longer be so.

You have to understand the other side of the story. You were traveling in New Jersey with several large reptiles, some of which were native to both your home state of Pennsylvania and NJ. At least two of these animals (the snapper and Burmese python) could very easily be construed as dangerous. Additionally, if a policeman saw someone with a baby alligator from out of state, driving towards a location where reptiles are sold, of course he would be concerned. And if he was going to confiscate the gator, snapper, and python, of course he would take the other animals as well, even if he had no familiarity with reptile-related laws in either state. Try and think about it like an outsider would. In my home state, an illegal reticulated python was found in a woman's washing machine -- officials are very careful about this sort of thing as they deal with way too much crap to put up with minor "offenses" such as hobbyists driving along with animals that can and will seriously injure someone. The policeman's actions were understandable, however unjust. That being said, I hope you get your animals back or at least win the case. Best of luck to you and to all of the hobbyists who deal with legal trouble these days.

N/P