Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We just hatched our first clutch. Here are the details.
Got an unusual looking female from one of my customers about a year ago. Nothing crazy--light colored, kind of looked like a yellowbelly but not quite. Decided to keep her and this season bred her to a nice looking lesser male. They locked up multiple times, and she produced 6 eggs. I pipped them on day 55 and inside I got 4 lessers, one that looked normal and one that looked white. I was happy with the unusual results. They are out of the eggs now, but to me the normal one looks a little like a yellowbelly, or I should say more like his mother--kind of a yellow belly type look with side striping. The white one looks like a very patterned ivory? 3 of the lessers look very light and thinly striped--the 4th looks more like a normal lesser. Sorry for the crappy pics, but I just shot this morning. They are just out and not shed or anything yet. I also have pics of the mother I have included in the album. Originally I was thinking, oh-the female must be a phantom, as there is a blue eyed leucy sitting in the egg, but now I am not sure that is the case. The eyes are blue, but have red irises like an ivory. Then I thought, well I guess the female is a yb and lesser x yb does in fact make white snakes, and the 3 nicer lessers are lesserbellys. What neat is if you look at the "yellowbelly" or "other" baby, it looks like the mother as well. I mean it is pretty uncanny--the patterns on the dorsal are so similar. Who knows. Cool way to start of the season. Any input would be appreciated.

Ben

unusual clutch

sorry the link does not work--I will post some individual pics

pic

pic

"Normal"

cool

mom

mom2

mom belly

Perhaps mom is a mojo...that just looks different.
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n/p
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www.hybridhaven.net

Cool clutch you have there Ben!

I spoke with Matt regarding this clutch the other day. From your pics I can clearly see that the mom is not a Phantom at all, she doesn't have the "Mojave like" look to her at all and her color is wrong for a Phantom/Mystic. I do however think she could be a subtle YB , the joker in the deck is how in the heck you made an Ivory from a Lesser???? Did you breed that Lesser sire to anything else so you can see more of what his babies look like ? Just goes to show how crazy Balls are at times! Thanks for sharing Ben.

Anthony McCain

Congrats, They are all nice ,especially The Leucy! Wow! I need to hurry and come up with something of my own.

Congrats. I never get that lucky! E

Very cool Ben!

Do you think there is anyway the father of the clutch could be a lesser-yellowbelly?

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Bill Galloway
Loxahatchee Rodents
Email

good one bill!--did not think of that---one question though--what does a lesser yellowbelly look like?

Wow-guess mom must be an unknown codom morph in the lesser/BL leucy group! What incredible luck-I'd go out and play the lottery!

Congratulations!
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Sure looks like an Ivory to me and the "normal" and mom sure look like YB's. Congradts!
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Ben,
Those are awful! Nothing special at all--Better send them here to California so you don't have to look at them anymore. Really, I don't mind.

Actually, makes you wonder what a lesser yellowbelly looks like. Whatever it is, you've got something special...again. Congrats!

Looks to me like the Dad was a YB Lesser and mom was a YB. Thats really cool Ben. Congrats you lucky dog.

Ben - Hope these pics help solve the puzzle. Butter Belly was produced(Oct. 08) by my Butter breeder male paired with one of those bright/flashy Y.B.'s. The breeding pic shows him trying to figure out "what goes where"?? He has not bred yet -- but will have the summer to figure in out.lol

What is the history on the male --pics?? Did he come from Amir? Based on the pics and current info, I would agree on the "little white guy" being an Ivory -- FUN STUFF!!!!

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Bill Buchman

It really looks like an ivory.

Unless there is a special loci complexe with the lesser and ivory, your male is a lesser yb and your female a yb.

Other option, is the YB and Lesser combine to create ivory.

Or the female is something else (not yb) that combined with lesser create ivory. Or the male have another gene (not yb) that create ivory too.

Well, what ever, it's a nice surprise !
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love this world, don't hate it.

I would definetly try to contact the breeder of your lesser if I were you.

May be he knows if he breed it to a yb or something and you got a lesser yb without knowing.
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love this world, don't hate it.

Maybe I'm loosing it but didn't someone last season end up with an Ivory from a YB to something not YB clutch? IDK

Congratulations on a nice clutch!!!

Have fun figuring out what they are!!!!
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Tosha
JET Pythons
Toshas Blog

Herp Medicine does not equal a bottle of Baytril - Dr. Scott Stahl

Was the yellow belly the female from last year?

I remember reading that in the most common type of parthenogenesis in snakes half of the female's alleles double so that could produce a male ivory from a female yellow belly. Of course if the genders don't work out that theory is shot to heck.

Retained sperm is also a possibility.

Didn't RDR make some lesser X yellow belly (what does he call his?) crosses? Maybe the lesser male here is a descendent with yellow belly hidden in with lesser.

Goblin was the name Ralph Davis gave his line of what is now known as yellow belly. And it was Phantom X Yellowbelly that I was thinking of that he did a lot of but I did find at least one clutch where he produced Lesser Yellowbelly - 2006 clutch 36. If lesser tends to hide yellow belly maybe even some of the ones labeled lesser in this clutch could have had it too.
RDR 2006 Clutch 36

...Ralph's Lesserbelly looks shockingly different than my Butterbelly!!! His Lessers are darker than my Butter -- as are his Goblins compared to the Yellowbelly femaale I used in my pairing. Also, as with most combos, hatchlings will be variable in general.
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Bill Buchman

congrats,,,,,,,,,,,, that is a fun clutch,,,,,,,,,,, keeps you thinking,,,,,,,,,,, gotta love it,
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This isn't that difficult. There are ONLY two options!

IT'S AN IVORY NOT A LUCY

Mother=YellowBelly (has the typical head pattern and belly) and not all YBs look like what most people would call YBs. The parents of my female YB look nothing like the typical look and they produced Ivories

Father=LesserBelly(If you want to know what one looks like, go look at yours! That's what you have)

The ONLY other option is retained sperm! Was she bred to a YB male EVER???

In either case, CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!

Ben - Hope these pics help solve the puzzle. Butter Belly was produced(Oct. 08) by my Butter breeder male paired with a BRIGHT/FLASHY Y.B.. I am am one who believes the Butter and Lesser are different -- yet similar morphs. The Lesser Belly could not be too much different than my guy I would think?

The breeding pic shows him trying to figure out "what goes where"?? He has not bred yet -- but will have the summer to figure it out.

What is the history on the male --pics?? Did he come from Amir? Retained sperm???Based on the pics and current info, I would agree on the "little white guy" being an Ivory -- FUN STUFF!!!!

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Bill Buchman

Imagine a lesser super stripe!