Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I recently moved and for a short time kept the few boas i ahve in a garage where the temps would stay between 85-90 throught the day...maybe hotter at times. For about 2 weeks.

One of my boas, an 07 animal, shows signs now of neurological damage...he twists his head every which way when moved, backwards and sideways.

I noticed somethign was wrong when i first fed him and he refused, so the next day i held him and this happened. He never showed signs of this before and always did quite well. Nor was he in physical contact with any other boa...ever.

Could this be IBD and if so, how do i confirm it? Could it be the high temps at this temp for that period? Or could it be something else.

Thanks for any input.

with boas, it could be ibd, as they can carry it from an early age or even birth. there is a possibility of getting a diagnosis without having to euthanize the snake. it is possible, although slight, but it is possible to diagnose ibd with a blood draw and have it sent off to a pathologist to look for inclusion cells. but a negative reading certainly doesnt mean negative for ibd. the only true way to get a diagnosis of ibd, is either a liver tissue sample or brain tissue sample. ther are two ways to go about it basically. one - you can wait it out and see if it subsides, maybe it was something environmentally. or, two - you can take it to the vet, and vet will probably do one of two things, either try it as an infection of some kind and try medications, or euthanize the snake send off samples for ibd analysis. if diagnosed with ibd, i think you probably what needs to be done, should you have more snakes (boas and/or pythons). unless, this boa was away from all the other ones.
-----
retic is king of kings

1.0 Tiger Retic
1.0 Albino Tiger Retic
0.1 Striped Tiger Retic (het albino)
0.1 Salmon Boa
1.0 Albino Boa
0.1 False Water Cobra

I would bet that the high heat had more to do with this than anything. We always want to jump right to IBD when there are neuro signs, but it is SOOOOO hard to diagnose and often is a diagnosis of exclusion (or really should be). Inclusion bodies are seen in tissue of many animals so inclusions would have to be found in the right cells and the animal would have to have all the right symptoms before an IBD diagnosis is made. I will tell you that many vets over-diagnose this, especially vets that aren't as in on new reptile medicine developments. As a tech I go to many of the same cont. ed. seminars as vets and get very scared at some of the things I see them go "wow I didn't know that!" to... but I'm digressing. I would correct your husbandry and get this snake into a good vet sooner rather than later though, but don't be so quick to jump on the IBD wagon (strict quarantine would be good though just in case).

...

Typically, when a boa has IBD, what are the first signs or symptoms of it and how does it progress visually.

I just held him and put him upside down three times and each time he was able to right himself almost instantly.

He just has this movement of his head that twists around sideways and backwards. What other signs should i look for? If he is able to right himself, then is this conclusive that it is not IBD?

And if it is due to the high temps...what temps and for how long would it take for this to happen to a boa. I had neonates in that room with im as well as several other young boas and none have shown signs of anything like this.

What, other than IBD and high temps could also be the casue of this?

Thanks in advance.

There are really a lot of things that can cause this type of behavior. Overheating is one, another is chemical poisoning. This one I learned the hard way. Did you know Lysol can cause this type of neurological disorder? I had some Lysol handy wipes in the snake room a few years ago I used for spot cleaing. Within days I had a couple of snakes start doing that head twisting thing. (I didn't put two-and-two together until later).I took the first one to the vet, and a day or two later wound up "sacraficing" him, then driving his body 2 hours to a vet research/teaching college to get the IBD tests done on his freshly expired organs. Turns out it was not IBD. As they explained, if the desease had progressed to the point of causing this kind of nuerological damage, inclusion bodies would have been evident. It was also odd that the behavior hadn't "progressed", just appeared relatively overnight. In the mean time I did some research on the internet and discovered a site that explained that Lysol was toxic to some reptiles. I had quaratined the other snake in a serperate room and began feeding small but frequent meals, about 1/4 the normal size and about twice a week, and changed water daily. My idea was to get him to eat and drink as much as possible in order to "flush" his system of any chemicals. It worked, or at least it didn't seem to hurt. After a couple of months of slow improvement, he returned to complete normalcy. Today he is completely normal.

So, in short, I think many people are very afraid of IBD and when faced with uncertainty, do as many humans do, jump to the worst case conclusion. I was one of those people and wound up "sacraficing" a sweet animal in attempt to rule out IBD. I wish I hadn't done that, but at the time, I was so freaked out I thought it was a reasonable thing to do in order to try to save the rest of my collection.

My advise? Quarantine, monitor, look around for other things that could be the source. By all means,get some qualified vet participation if you have access, but don't assume they are all-knowing, generally, they are not. Give it some time and attention. And just in case, for the sake of your other animals and other hobbyists, practice strict quarantine. During the time I was working through my issues, my collection was completely locked down, nothing in or out and no sharing of cages, water bowls, food items, etc. Actually, that kinda stuck with me. Out side of breeding season, I still practice "separation" of individuals and their cages, furniture, bowls, food, etc.

Sorry for the long drawn-out saga, but the good news is that none of my snakes have had the head twisties since!

Best of luck!

Mark
-----
uncommonboa.com

I believe other causes beyond overheating and poisoning could be some types of bacterial or viral infections (other than IBD), or maybe even some type of trauma affecting the spine.

Mark
-----
uncommonboa.com

agree with above!

yes. overheating, chemical or certainl plant oil toxicosis, ibd, and a handful of infectious diseases. tissue examination is not a 100% guarantee of diagnosis. there are many types of inclusion body cells, its a specific looking inclusion cell that a trained, reptilian medicine pathologist looks for. ibd is one of those diseases that you go by, symptoms and if a reptile medicine trained pathologist finds on a tissue biopsy and/or cytological exam.
-----
retic is king of kings

1.0 Tiger Retic
1.0 Albino Tiger Retic
0.1 Striped Tiger Retic (het albino)
0.1 Salmon Boa
1.0 Albino Boa
0.1 False Water Cobra

I have unfortunately seen these effects with heat. I was getting ready to take some animals to a local reptile swap years ago. I am set up with aquariums and heat lights with all of my reptiles. I placed a young boa in a clear plastic deli dish for display and sat him down to grab the next animal. When I picked up his dish 2-3 minutes later, the boa was contorting his body and twisting his neck excessively. He was perfectly healthy prior to this. This was because the clear plastic dish concentrated the heat from the heat light that I had just sat him directly next to. It was a case just like car windows will concentrate the sun's heat in a closed car. I don't know how hot he got in such a short time period, but his brain seemed to have suffered permanent severe damage. I kept him isolated for over 6 months after that. I had to help him drink and eat cuz his coordination was gone. He showed no improvement at all, so I finally put him down. I felt terrible knowing that I caused his problems, but I learned a valuable lesson that day. If your boas were in glass tanks while in the garage, the same situation could have occurred for you if the sun was coming in through a window and hitting that one tank. I hope the damage to yours can be fixed with time. Mine was too severe and he could not outgrow the damage that was done. Good luck.