Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I wanted to add in fruits and vegetables for my rats diet. I have been adding in red apples. Do I need to remove the skin on the apples or do I leave them on? I was not sure they would be able to digest the skin that easy. Also, what other fruits and vegetables can I introduce and how much can I give them weekly? I have my first group of girls ready to deliver rat babies in the next 10 or so days. When does a female start to really look like she is going to explode? They all look round but they do not look really plump like they are going to explode yet? Any other tips is always appreciated. I would also like to thank Pitoon, Bighurt, Rainbowsrus, and anyone else who wrote me direct or posted replies. All of you have made this an effortless and seamless task for me. It feels like I have been breeding rats for years because of all of you so willingly shared your years of experience with me.

Thanks,
Mark

I give my rats broccoli and squash and the love it i have also given them banana chips but fresh ones not the kind you get at the store (because they have extra sugar added)As for the females mine usually a day or two before birth they look like they are ready to explode. However first time moms dont seem to get that look. mine always seem to have a slightly smaller litter thier 1st time between 7 and 10 babies. Hope this helps

Hi,

Thank you for the reply. That does help.

Mark

About half of what I feed my rats is cut up carrot pieces. They also get certain table and kitchen scraps; like melon rinds and seeds, zucchini stem and blosom ends, apple cores, celary, etc.

Below is a link to a list of foods considered dangerous for rats.

Snakey Lakey
forbidden foods

Hi,

Thanks for the list. That is a big help. I was at a pet store and they gave their rats peanuts in the shell. They said they love them. Oh well, that is why I post here. I am really looking forward in seeing some babies next weekend or so. My kids are excited to.

Thanks,
Mark

..........I feed sweet potatoe to african rats all the time and the regular rats enough times....onions I feed nothing but me wife eats no raw onions, my one friend will maybe die from onions (allergic)...peanuts....everything eats peanuts...and where would I buy raw peanuts?....never seen them.....avocado, they are MINE all mine.....green potatoe skins and eyes, yes, that I knew....no green taders....for nuttin....
........chocolate....I have done....never killed my cocker spaniel before either.......celery nothing eats here...some others ,I forget....

rats....they live maybe 8 months anyways...who cares if they go blind and get cancer...???...LOL....
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......14
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1(normal,mojave,3 spider mojaves)
2(normal,pastel,pinstripe,blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
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not too much wet stuff.....
apples are good...carrot, sweet 'taders,white 'taders etc....all kinds of veggies,, too much is bad...diahrea....
also bones, from cooked foods after you eat...chicken,steak,pork, etc...again , too much is bad...
bread, dried first is what they say to do....

....rats will not eat potatoe skins and celery....don't ask me why (not here in 20 years anyways)...

...too much fatty foods will make fat rats and fat rats do not breed well....peanuts,sunflower and alot of other seeds and nuts...careful....

...
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......14
......92/ 11-4
...........................
1(normal,mojave,3 spider mojaves)
2(normal,pastel,pinstripe,blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
.

>>Hi,
Personally I only feed fresh foods if they are gonna go to waste otherwise. Likewise they get stale breakfast cereal. So, my rats get overripe bananas if no one is willing to make banana bread. They get apples that are starting to go....I cut off the good bits for them.

But, don't feed too too much as it will cause upsets and imbalances. I could dig out my RatLady info and tell you what is or isn't good but you can google that on pet rat sites. Too much broccoli, cabbage etc is likely to mess with them.

Stale cereal is a treat.

Bird dishes get emptied into a rodent food container and they get that too.....left over roudybush, zupreem and seed mix.

Breads that dry out.....like anything can dry out in upstate NY right now.

You get the idea. Just don't feed so much that you throw off the nutrition of your base food.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Hey,

Thanks again you guys. I am so blown away by everyone taking the time to help me and my rats out. These forums are the best.

Thanks,
Mark

yea....

???? I walways wondered about people that dump old bird cage leftovers into rat /mouse colonies...?....I know people that do this .......I get mad when I buy rat chow and the sparrows have left little droplets of feces on the bags outside....?

....just wonder ....
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......14
......92/ 11-4
...........................
1(1.normal,.1mojave,2.1 spider mojaves)
2(1.normal,1.pastel,spider?Huh,.1blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
.

>>yea....
>>
>>???? I walways wondered about people that dump old bird cage leftovers into rat /mouse colonies...?....I know people that do this .......I get mad when I buy rat chow and the sparrows have left little droplets of feces on the bags outside....?
>>
>>....just wonder ....
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>>......14
>>......92/ 11-4
>>...........................
>>1(1.normal,.1mojave,2.1 spider mojaves)
>>2(1.normal,1.pastel,spider?Huh,.1blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
>>.

In your exact yet rambling way I think you are assuming the leftover bird food is tainted with poop?? No, that gets dumped dumped....garbage. What we dump in the rodent bucket is just the flavors some birds leave or the types of seeds they leave but also leave chaff and are not worth refeeding. Kinda like stale cereal....no one else is gonna bother with it but rats think it is yummy.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

yea that....

yes -people dump the bottom of the bird cage into rodent cages all the time...yes it has a crapload of poop in it....I have seen these people...even stores....

....your style ? ....does it have bird spit on it...?.......

......yea I know...saliva..defecates,feces,etc....

.....
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......14
......92/ 11-4
...........................
1(1.normal,.1mojave,2.1 spider mojaves)
2(1.normal,1.pastel,spider?Huh,.1blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
3(pastelghost....)

>>yea that....
>>
>>yes -people dump the bottom of the bird cage into rodent cages all the time...yes it has a crapload of poop in it....I have seen these people...even stores....
>>
>>....your style ? ....does it have bird spit on it...?.......
>>
>>......yea I know...saliva..defecates,feces,etc....
>>

bottom of the bird cages gets dumped on the brush pile and I hope it gives the beasts living there a disease.

Bird spit....hmmmmm. Not sure about that.

Love my birds more than my feeders.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

"""Love my birds more than my feeders."""

......birds......touch anything, carry disease to the feeders, feeders fed to snakes, snakes have diseases from birds that mjay not hurt the birds?......love my snakes more than birds....

.....this is all for others reading this....birds carry -snakes carry-at times...you cannot mix the germs or it will be a mess.....

........like I said before...I don't like the little bird drops on my bags of feed on the outside....(lots of sparrows in the feed store building
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......14
......92/ 11-4
...........................
1(1.normal,.1mojave,2.1 spider mojaves)
2(1.normal,1.pastel,spider?Huh,.1blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
3(pastelghost....)

I certainly see your point. Don't know if I will change my habits or not.
Have not had health issues with anything to do with the birds. Only issues ever had was with a box turtle carrying diseases to a freind's snakes and on from there.....years ago. Go fig.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

turtles....yea...worse....I hate turtle people's habits at shows...well, some shows....they feed the turtles all week ,bring them to a show all full of defecates, take the tubs to the bathroom,dump,rinse and clean them in the sinks??? maybe even dump the water into the floor drain, yea, like it all goes into the drain, then they take the whole roll of paper towels from the dispensers ,,,,so the bathrooms are disgusting,wet,infested with trillions upon trillions of bacteria that everyone will carry around on their feet all day, the sinks are filthy,and there are no paper towels...and this is at 8 am ,an hour before the show even starts....see it all the time...turtle people have not got a clue, are pigs alot of times, and should be banned from owning turtles....this is why I see the point of banning alot of things.......(*they ever hear of not feeding for a couple days, and using outside faucets and carrying extra tubs and paper towels of their own?)..

...another?...woman, pet store, iguanas, salmonella and didn't know it....a python bit her arm,died weeks or so later ,then a boa bit her and it too died afterwards...they made fun of her and said SHE was the cause, she was feeling sickly...so she went to the doc...turned out she had salmonella and she did kill the snakes by them biting her ....AAAAAH...LOL......

....I know people that won't use any food that fell to the floor(yet has a cat in the building?),and some people will not let anyone into the rodent buildings at all...(as it should for lab conditions)...
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......16
......104/ 11-4
...........................
1(1.normal,.1mojave,2.1 spider mojaves)
2(1.normal,1.pastel,spider?Huh,.1blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
3(2pastelghost,3pastel,1normal....)
4(1 normal,4 pastel...

The Domesticated Norway rat is similar to that of the wild, dependent on human society. Either for food or scrap, rats can not survive without the waste of Man.

That being said there is not much you give that will not be utilized, however remember that waste is equal to the intake that is at a surplus. To be blunt if you feed them crap you will get more crap.

I often feed my colony apples or fruit that as passed the point that my family will not eat them. They will consume most of any fruit presented, however I find they leave some peel. I keep them on Mazuri Lab block so they get all the nutrition they need. As a result anuything else ceral, bread, fruit is a treat rather than nutritional sustainment. I prefer the balanced lab block so that my colony doesn't produce excess waste or gain undesired weight. Also with Lab block there isn't a waste procuct of shell or undesired seed like there is with pet store mixes.

The last week of pregnancy is when the female really begins to swell. Its that point that I try and seperate females to birthing tubs (some females don't communally care for young very well) or seperate the males so I can better countrol the birth cycle. Females ovulate within hours of birth and can become pregnant again...

Best of Luck
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis

Hey,

I am going to leave all three females together. For the reason I don't have any birthing tubs. I do have have the tubs that I will be growing them in free right now, but in time they will be full. Can I try and leave the girls together? I have heard thoughts on both ends. I can make a birthing rack pretty easy. I pulled the male yesterday because he was torturing the girls. The squealing was making my daughter very upset. The peace has been regained. Does the insistent breeding of the male upset the girls or is it just us thinking they are upset? Anyway nice to hear from you. I wish I could pay you to raise my rats for me.

Thanks,
Mark

I found that one female was apt to steal ALL of the babies and try to rear them by herself. She would not have enough milk for all the pups, but still she would chase off the rightful mothers. The rightful mothers would try to drag the babies to their own nests. The poor babies were continually being dragged from nest to nest.

After it was impossible to determine whose baby was whose, and the rightful mothers finally gave up going after their babies; the dominate female had all of the babies in one nest.

The article linked to below gives solid reasons why it is best NOT to allow rats to nest communaly.

Snakey Lakey
Communal Nesting

Read the article and there were interesting points one of which was related to relevent age of pups. Also related-ness of the moms.....

My colony by nature is all related, while decent sized, ~ 13.72 breeders plus pups and growouts at any given time, they are all somewhat related as I raise up new breeders from the pups. Every week, the about to pop moms are seperated into individual tubs. I check daily and those that have given birth are moved up in sequence in the racks while those still waiting are moved down. When I clean (or as they give birth is space is an issue) I combine two females and 24 pups (0.2.24) in one tub. Sometimes there is a domminance squable soon after but for the most part there are two females and 24 week old pups the following week. (barring the bad hand stealing pups for feeders)

As the feeder raids and weekly cleanings go on, the pups and moms are consolodated on each weekly cleaning into 0.2.24 groups with the "surplus" moms going back to the breeding cages for re-impregnation.

I am not picky about which pups go where, so as the groups are adjusted/consolodated each week, sometimes a few pups will go one way or another into a different tub. My moms seem to not care where the pups come from. As I'm building/adjusting my 0.2.24 tubs I keep a mental note on the pup count, + 3 -4 etc. and shuffle pups around to straighten it all out. Not all litters start out at 12 but 12 seems to be typical for my colony and seems to be a good number for moms to raise. They can easily raise fewer and they will grow faster but take up more tubs. They can also raise more but those pups grow slower (sharing te milk between more pups = less milk / pup.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

As with everything in breeding rats there are particular items for continued breeding selections. Rats that bite meet a demise poor breeders meet a demise, cannibalism, etc. Mothers that don't do well in communal pens can be another reason. However feeding off a mom just because she can't share is a bad excuse IMO. Which is why Data cards can be a vital asset.

Like Dave has said before often the best tool in the rat barn is the data card. Like many reptile breeders I keep data cards with on each cage for each animal. These can be incorporated to be used in rat barns as well.

Particularly with larger operations like Dave's and some others it is vital as sheer memory alone isn't enough. A quick search for his posts in this forum will revial the thread he discusses this so I won't go into detail. However its not a requirement to remember rats names etc. Each tub can be a mis of traits than you simple have to identify the characteristics, tan hooded, black, albino, etc.

Getting off track a bit so back to communal breeding like Dave said age plays a factor. Although I've never heard this I think relation in regards to gowing up together will play a factor as well. I'm testing this theory ATM. I have 5 bins of 1.2 all raised together from hoppers, males are unrelated.

They are coming up on 12 wks so we will se how it works. My thinking is they have shared a tub, shared food and water, why would they not share parenting. I will post my results.

I hope to incorporate some of Dave's techniques in communal breeding if my hypothesis doesn't pan out. I also plan to begin using data cards to better cycle my harvest. As the barn gets closer to completion the operation will become large enough to justify the cards strict use.

Cheers

P.S. to answer your question, I can't speak on the emotional stability of your females but unlike Humans and Dolphins most animals don't enjoy the act of breeding...

P.S.S I'd love for you to pay me to breed my rats, oh wait that's not what you said...LOL
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Jeremy Payne
JB Reptile

1.0 Snow "Kahl"
0.2 Triple Het Moonglow "Kahl"
0.1 Orange Tail Hypo Het Leopard
0.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow
1.0 Ghost
0.1 Possible Super Hypo
0.1 DH Ghost
1.1 "Kahl" Albino
1.0 Hypomelenistic
1.3 Pastel Hypo
0.1 Anerthrystic

1.1 Morelia Clastolepis