Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello everybody,
i have been lurking on here awhile and decided to join up mainly to ask about the amount of wild caught torts. i'm surprised there are so many. You would think by now the word would be out to buy CB. It just seems cruel to me to take an old tort who has been living the life in his real home only to be yanked out for a hobby. There are plenty of CB around that make imports unnecessary, ex. the amount of redfoots and yellowfoots imported. Does anybody know if there is anything underway to make importation of red and yellows illegal? Is it just me?

To add my two cents: where are all the CB torts?

I definitely do not want to support the practice of WC, but I have so far been unable to find many CB Russians torts available. either new or ready for "adoption".

Additionally, the "adoption" process for many reptile groups has also gotten out of hand. The local herp groups where I live (the SF Bay Area) are typically unresponsive, and / or set their "re-homing" fees so high that I may as well go to Petco! To that, any of the other agencies that I could find via herp websites typically will not ship.

I know that there are plenty of unwanted herps out there just waiting to be adopted, but in my opinion the process is broken. I realize that many groups want you to jump through a variety of hoops (excessively detailed applications, high "adoption" fees) in an effort to vet out any lookee-loos who think it might be fun to get a herp, but in doing so are alienating those of us who care about what we are doing and want to help.

I'm just sayin'

Well,Ware should I start.You want CB,that is good,but why want to end imports? If you do then years from now captive born tortoises would all be related and become week.Take a long time you say!NO!I have produced F2 or second generation tortoises And I can tell you they are NO MATCH for animals born from wild collected tortoises.It will take quite awile to produce STRONG offspring without new blood.The poor adult tortoise that is plucked out of the wild for the pet trade never had it so good.I've worked with huge shipments of wild cought turtles that were confiscated while on their way to China for food.This was one of thousands going their every week!It was 4.5 TONS!thats right TONS.So,the pet trade isnt perfect but some have a chance.The others are sold in markets and butchered alive.Be carfull what you ask for.The Goveronment is trying VERY HARD to stop everyone from owning wild animals.Go to the LAW & Regulation forum and get up to date on whats going on,or we wont have any animals to talk about.I'll give my name Vic Morgan......pic live free or die....out

hmm touchy subject...i have mixed emotions on wc torts. one real good thing that comes from wc torts. is breeding coloneys that would otherwise take an unbelieveable amount of time to establish. i recently purchased a ltc wc coloney of red foots that i hope will produce many cb red foots for some local pet shops. without wc torts. this would not be as available for me and others to do. is it compleately fair to pull one out of the wild for somebody to forget about in a month or two? probibly not. as far as the "rehomeing" or "adoption" fees go, that is out of control. they just need to say thoes animals are for sale. years ago when i was first geting into sulcatas i tryed to go to a shelter and adopt one but the process ended up being so long and drawn out i eventualy said screw it and just bought some. so i agree that the pet trade is not perfect and there are several aspects of it that are grey but dont let it get in the way of my fun. i go to work every day and cannot wait for the buzzer to go off and i battle traffic to come home and mix up food, think of ways to improve habitats,& record weights. there is nothing like the feeling you get when you go into the pen for a little relaxation and you see one droping an egg in a hole!

This is one of the best posts I've read in a long time. Pretty much sums up why I do what I do. Even when friends ask "Why do you want to go through all that work for a pet?"

I'm like "Work? What work? I LIKE doing this!"

AMEN!

Dear Figg, this is something that should cross every tortoise keepers mind. Your points and Vic M's are both good ones, and most of us who breed wish the buying public would support our efforts...after of course we have our founder stock, all of which comes from the wild at some point. This is philosophy, but it is fact that tons of Chelonians are destined for food and pharmacy, and probably that should be stopped or regulated with vigor. I know at least 3 breeders of Russians that are restricting production because of the hassle to market them...with imports being sold so cheap and gullible beginning keepers buying them and spending so much more with Vet bills etc. it is hard for us to compete economically.

The politics of 3rd world countries often dictates what is exported, and buying countries have an insatiable demand, which will be met lawfully or by black market. We need to have ethics and limit our consumption, and supporting captive breeders and buying from them is a start. This is a real can of worms, with a lot of perspectives and no easy solution. Vic H.

Thanks for the responses. i wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. i can see why wild caught are needed for healthy breeding, especially when this will help preserve the species. But there does seems to be a bit more imported than that needed for breeders. i had just seem some pictures and thought it was sad that some old torts had to go about such a drastic change, that's all.

I live in Catalonia, Spain, where T.hermani hermani is indigenous. Some decades ago it was the most abundant tortoise imported all over Europe together with Testudo graeca. Most of them died because of the lack of information on it´s manteinance and the conditions in wich were imported. In the 90´s terrapene s.p., at least in Spain, was the most abundant and cheap tortoise you could find in shops.Most were parasitized with helmints and fly larvae, and severely dehidratated. To worsen it the advice they gave you in the shop was that it was more or less like a herman´s with a hinge on the plastron. Now it´s the turn of horsfieldii. It´s been imported in large numbers for the last 10 years. Í don´t think there is a pressure in Assia against this trade. This looks like repeating hermani´s history.
I have wild caught A.horsfieldiis. I do my best to keep them healthy and try to know as much as I can on it´s needs. But I must confess sometimes I have some ethical doubts. It´s the part of our hobby wich we sometimes don´t want to see.

I think that some tortoises and turtles do still need to be imported to establish captive breeding colonies. However, the majority of imported animals are brought in by people who see the animals as profit rather than the next founder of a captive breeding program. Yes, they still love the animals but are not as concerned with their status in the wild. I have helped friends with their imported shipments to only watch tortoises die over time while they wait for a pet shop or another wholesaler interested in some tortoises, what I see as a tremendous waste. Of those that do get shipped out, they rest in the hands of a (more than likely) uncapable owner. A wild caught hingeback tortoise sold in a pet store has little to no chance of survival.

I think if shipments of tortoises were brought in by capable groups of people or an organization that were willing to immediately acclimate the entire shipment of tortoises/turtles and then use those turtles as breeding stock, the importation of wild caught turtles/tortoises would be justified.