Reptile & Amphibian Forums

These little mocquards beauties have been hatching out the last couple of days.
Cool subspecies!!!

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Randy Whittington

Congratulations Randy - what temp do you incubate your beauty eggs at ? and do you always manually pip them ?

Sue x
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The Ratsnake Foundation Online Society

Hey Sue, Thanks. I incubate my beauty eggs at about 78. I don't manually pip them as a rule but I did this clutch as soon as the first piped itself because the eggs seemed a little hard. I've had that happen ocaisonally with some of the beauty subspecies over the years. I incubate them a little less moist that I did years ago and only rarely see that now but when I do I slit all the eggs in the clutch as soon as I see a sign of one in the clutch trying to cut the egg, just to be safe.

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Randy Whittington

Hi Randy

Its been a good few years since I bred any beauty snakes, but after losing alot of them dead in egg the first year, subsequent years, once the first one pipped then I'd intervene and manually pip the rest. This year I've got some calico x T Albino cooking in the incubator, set up pretty much the same as yoursef - 78F on 2.1 (vermic/water) substrate. This differs to how I used to incubate them 82F on 1.1 substrate, I always found the eggs to be very thick. Do you think the drier substrate helps ? Do you half bury the eggs or just place them on the top of the substrate ?

Sue x
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The Ratsnake Foundation Online Society

Sue I've definatly had less problems since I started incubating their eggs in a drier mix. I've had less problems with the eggs being as thick and I don't have the eggs on the bottom growing mold like I used too. I also starting using pearlite mixed in with the vermiculite as it seems to get better circulation around the eggs. I started mixing with the pearlite mainly because the vermitulite I can get is very fine. I have since found larger grain vermiculite but still mix it with pearlite and really like the combo. I just put the eggs on the top and don't bury them.

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Randy Whittington

>>Sue I've definatly had less problems since I started incubating their eggs in a drier mix. I've had less problems with the eggs being as thick and I don't have the eggs on the bottom growing mold like I used too. I also starting using pearlite mixed in with the vermiculite as it seems to get better circulation around the eggs. I started mixing with the pearlite mainly because the vermitulite I can get is very fine. I have since found larger grain vermiculite but still mix it with pearlite and really like the combo. I just put the eggs on the top and don't bury them.
>>
>>
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>>Randy Whittington

First, those are some great looking little Mocquard's, Randy!

Second, I am finding your discussion with Sue, regarding incubating Beauty eggs to be interesting and informative. I know I have discussed my problems with incubating my calico taeniurus eggs before - and I am still trying to find my way with them.

I tried something different with them this year; zero-substrate incubation, using the ambient humidity inside the incubator as the only supply of moisture for the eggs. This was achieved with a few inches of water, with a heat source underneath, and with an aquarium airstone bubbling through the water. The airstone brings in fresh air as well as helping to maintain 100% humidity.

All seemed to be going well until I looked at the eggs at about the 48th day of incubation, and found a few to be denting in. I panicked, thinking that they were dehydrating, and this was way too early for them to be starting the pre-pipping denting in. After getting a suggestion from another keeper, I ended up with changing directions and covering the eggs with a loose layer of moistened sphagnum moss, which is my old standby.

Well, I just looked at them again, after a few days with the moss, and there does not seem to be any change. So, I am now guessing that they may actually just be getting ready to pip. I removed the moss from around them, and piled it at the other end of the incubation tub - something for the babies to hide under when/if they hatch, anyway. I had originally planned to manually pip these eggs at eight weeks, after 5 of 7 babies died in their eggs last year. Not sure I will still do this, but I may.

As a note, I incubated last year's clutch on top of large grain vermiculite, but I think my mixture was too wet, which may have (probably) contributed to the babies' deaths, and definately kept the eggs fully filled out for the entire incubation. They never dented in, which is a crucial part of hatching, according to some literature.

I have also kept these eggs a bit cooler than previous clutches, with a night-time temp drop. During the day, the incubator will get up to 79 - 80 F, and drop to 77 F at night. I think I tried to maintain 80 - 82 F with last year's clutch.

Calico eggs at 48 days

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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

moisture

too much moisture and the eggs get too full, it has to do with the pressure inside the egg....and the fact that the shells are so thick,they need to be dryer and more brittle to actually hatch/rip while pipping.......

learned this from people, and by watching house snake eggs go bad time after time.....same with trinket rats, they were fine,but you could see they were too moist at times....

BHB and I talked once about ball eggs even and the ones that were too wet had too much pressure in them and caused troubles with the babies...even if they are good to go maybe they won't eat well, or maybe be full term dead in egg.....I hate that ...

....I still have trouble keeping my eggs dry(er).......I get paranoid......just hatched chocolate brown rats this week, pretty cool, eggs were a tad moist but still worked out.....easier for NA rats to take the wetness.....

...good luck.......
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......16
......104/ 11-4
...........................
1(1.normal,.1mojave,2.1 spider mojaves)
2(1.normal,1.pastel,spider?Huh,.1blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
3(2pastelghost,3pastel,1normal....)
4(1 normal,4 pastel...

>>moisture
>>
>>too much moisture and the eggs get too full, it has to do with the pressure inside the egg....and the fact that the shells are so thick,they need to be dryer and more brittle to actually hatch/rip while pipping.......
>>
>>learned this from people, and by watching house snake eggs go bad time after time.....same with trinket rats, they were fine,but you could see they were too moist at times....
>>
>>BHB and I talked once about ball eggs even and the ones that were too wet had too much pressure in them and caused troubles with the babies...even if they are good to go maybe they won't eat well, or maybe be full term dead in egg.....I hate that ...
>>
>>....I still have trouble keeping my eggs dry(er).......I get paranoid......just hatched chocolate brown rats this week, pretty cool, eggs were a tad moist but still worked out.....easier for NA rats to take the wetness.....
>>
>>...good luck.......
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>>......16
>>......104/ 11-4
>>...........................
>>1(1.normal,.1mojave,2.1 spider mojaves)
>>2(1.normal,1.pastel,spider?Huh,.1blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
>>3(2pastelghost,3pastel,1normal....)
>>4(1 normal,4 pastel...

Makes sense - thanks for the response. Got photos of those brown rats? Are they chocolate emoryi?

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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

not emoryi.....obsoleta....black rats...brown ones...
supose to be amel white(Tminus) x amel T reds and maybe licorice mixed in and all,,,the guy breeds the double triple hets and makes sunrise and sunset rats,licorice and all, he had one he named copperhead...it's head was copper...mine came from this male....I thought I would get amel whites and reds and maybe chocolates and slightly maybe licorices....anyways....

chocolate x chocolate came out all chocolate....no name for them they are just light brown.....kinda sweet, and what I actually wanted to happen.......

3 cameras and a vid recorder (whatever they are called now )...
.....yea I know...get them out,learn to use them, learn to load pics again and all.......but when will I clean if I am taking pics...???.....work sucks.....

...I am looking at amel mocquard's all the time too...but they bite so much...LOL.............
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......16
......104/ 11-4
...........................
1(1.normal,.1mojave,2.1 spider mojaves)
2(1.normal,1.pastel,spider?Huh,.1blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
3(2pastelghost,3pastel,1normal....)
4(2normal,7 pastel...)

Their just misunderstood. Their really sweethearts. lol

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Randy Whittington

.......yea....we had a chat remember....LOL........

....I am still trying to thin my room out and make new room for new stuff......trying.....

I am hoping to have room before all the good stuff in 09 is gone...

.........good luck with all, and the Moc's....the little sweeties......kiss them for me.....(ouch?)....sorry....did it hurt much....?...LOL......

......

....
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......16
......104/ 11-4
...........................
1(1.normal,.1mojave,2.1 spider mojaves)
2(1.normal,1.pastel,spider?Huh,.1blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
3(2pastelghost,3pastel,1normal....)
4(2normal,7 pastel...)