Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I run a reptile & exotic pet store and recently had an employee from another pet store come in and ask me if I could help diagnose what was wrong with one of their baby boas. He said the snake acted as if it was blind and wasn't eating. I asked if the snake ever lay upside down or seem disoriented and he said yes and that a couple of other of their baby boas were acting similarly. I told him it could be IBD and asked him to take the snake out of the store immediately. I informed him that they need to quarantine all of their boas and pythons and disinfect their reptile section since the disease is highly contageous and fatal. This was over a week ago and since then I've learned that they have sold at least one of their babies prior to this and have not done anything to quarantine or isolate them. I've got some RTB and BP breeding projects going right now as well as several customers with large boid collections so I'm pretty concerned.

I've been considering reporting them to the state department that oversees the licensing of pet stores and possibly taking further action against them to make sure they do not start a potential outbreak. Am I getting too paranoid or is this a real threat?
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1.4.20 Bearded Dragons (Frodo, Red Sonya, Galadriel, Arwen, Lakis & babies)
0.1.0 Peacock Day Gecko
0.1.0 Columbian Red-Tail Boa (Bilbo)
0.1.0 Ball Python (Daisy)
0.1.0 California King Snake (Cali)
1.1.0 Honduran Milk Snakes
1.0.0 Timor Monitor (Timmy)
2.1.0 Red Ear Sliders (Pilot, Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dum)
0.1.0 PacMan Frog (Jabba The Hutt)
0.0.2 Grey Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Fire Belly Toads
0.2.0 Cats (Mollie & Nermel)
1.0.0 Mini Pinscher x Chihuahua (Pepper)

I think you did the right thing by asking him to leave your store. That being said, I think you would be making a huge mistake by notifying anyone. First of all, he trusted you and most likely looks up to you and thats why he brought the snake to you. Now you're gonna burn him? Second of all, are you a vet? How do you know what those snake have or dont have. You can assume anything you want but unless you have proof you dont FACTUALLY know anything. Last of all, what if that was you? You stated you keep customers snakes in your store. Do you really know what they are all doing husbandry wise? Or if they take in animals from unknown sources? How would you feel if that was you? Or are you one of these guys that say that could never happen to me, LOL. This is just my two cents but you asked. HEAR NO EVIL SEE NO EVIL
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honesty is my only policy

I may have misread that you keep customers snakes in your store but in any event, in my opinion, IBD can happen to any of us in the hobby. Good luck.
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honesty is my only policy

Hi Mike,
Thanks for your reply. In all honesty, if I found that one of my snakes was exhibiting IBD symptoms I would immediately quarantine all of them and not sell any of the boas or pythons. I would also do a thorough disinfection of all my reptile displays and only allow access to the quarantined snakes by myself and my reptile guys using strict hygiene procedures. I definitely would not take it casually and continue displaying or selling the sick boas. That's my main concern with the other store is their lack of action to prevent an outbreak if it is indeed IBD. How they do it is up to them but as of yesterday (over a week after they showed me their first sick snake) they have done nothing and continue to show and sell their baby boas.

My dilemma is exactly as you mentioned, I don't know for sure if it's IBD and I don't want to cause a fuss in case it's just an isolated incident. I only vaguely remember the big IBD scare several years ago since I was primarily breeding Bearded Dragons and only keeping a few snakes. So I'm not sure how easily this disease can be transmitted between different locations (ie. handle a snake at one store, drive a few miles, handle a snake at another store).

I do appreciate any advice/help offered.

I dont blame you for being concerned. Believe me I would be if I were in your shoes. I'm suggesting you not call anyone about it. Anyway, best of luck.
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honesty is my only policy

Yeah I will probably not bother calling any authorities. But I am warning the customers who I know are boa or python breeders about the possibility. Thanks again!

Only a qualified vet can really determine if the symptoms that boa showed are IBD (and the best way to tell is via a necropsy/biopsy of liver and other organs and even then it can be hard to tell as far as I know). Doesn't sound like that person is too worried about it which is a shame.

I've seen a baby boa display similar symptons from overheating and believe I have heard of similar symptoms from bacterial infections.

So, basically, there's no real way to know if that boa had IBD based on the info available although it is a possibility, I just wanted to point out that there are other things that could cause similar nerological problems.

Best thing you can do is make sure those boas stay as far away from your store as possible. That's very scary! Good luck,
-April
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

Thanks for the reply, April. Yeah it is pretty scary especially considering the very real possibility that some kid will go there to check out their snakes and then drive here afterwards. I just installed several hand sanitizer dispensers on the reptile displays and informed my employees to make sure customers sanitize before handling any animal. I just hope that will be enough. What if someone has an infected boa crawling around their neck and arms? Will just sanitizing their hands be enough to prevent spreading? And does anyone know how long the IBD virus can survive outside of a host? I am probably getting too paranoid about this it's hard not to when I think about the potential consequences... ugh...

>What if someone has an infected boa crawling around their neck and arms? Will just sanitizing their hands be enough to prevent spreading? And does anyone know how long the IBD virus can survive outside of a host?

Honestly, we don't know the answers to those questions. It's not known with 100% certanty how IBD is spread. It could be from bodily fluid direct contact (boa breeds with infected boa, boa crawls through fresh urate of infected boa, mite transimission from infected boa) or if it's airborne. BUT I do agree that taking as many percautions as possible is a good idea.

Here's a link with some more info, Dr Jacobson's information from the University of Florida. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
Inclusion Body Disease of Boid Snakes

I lost my 1st and most special boa, a brazilian rainbow, because of IBD. I had her from when she was a hatchling to 7 feet long!! She was such a lovie and I miss her to this day!!

I used worked with someone who had imported a GORGEUS male. He (told me he did anyways, who knows) took him to the vet and quarantined him for a month. I gave her over to him, they were in together for 2 weeks. When I took her home she didn't eat. I took this as a sign that she was gravid. She was dead within the month. She literally just shrivilled up and there was nothing I could do for her. It still hurts my heart to this day!

Come to find out almost half of his collection died unexpectedly also. IBD is a HUGE deal. Not to be taken lightly!!
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Alone, alone, all, all alone. Alone on a wide, wide sea.
-Rime of the ancient Mariner

Whoa, yeah that's the kind of thing I dread. Not just for myself but for any other boa or python keepers. That's my dilemma, if I know there is a potential threat out there shouldn't I say or do something to protect everyone else? I'd hate to see a major outbreak happen because I didn't say anything...