Reptile & Amphibian Forums

All,

The work of the Barkers (and others) have had an effect as it appears as though the government will attempt to test the theory of the Northern Invasion of the Burmese Python...After I heard this story this morning on the radio, I found it on The Huffington Post (there are MANY others)...

There's both good and bad news here in this article in that it is "alarmist" (media hype) with the same old stereotypes and "spin" but, we'll find out how long they survive this winter (if they don't tamper with this experiment to achieve their desired result)...

The jury is out as far as I'm concerned...It's part of a collaboration between the USGS, NPS and UF and certainly something to pay attention to in the next few months...

The Huffington Post, June 25, 2009

Burmese Pythons Invade Florida: Threaten to Move North
Alysia Patterson, June 24, 2009 03:42 PM EST

AIKEN, S.C. — One by one, seven slithering Burmese pythons were dumped into a snake pit surrounded by 400 feet of reinforced fence at the Savannah River Ecology Lab in South Carolina. As they were released last week by a handful of scientists, some of the serpents hissed and lunged, baring their fangs. Others coiled up under the brush. Two slid into a pond in the center of the pit, disappearing in a snaking trail of bubbles. Some were more than 10 feet long and thicker than a forearm. And for the next year all of them will call this snake pit _ an enclosed area of tangled brush and trees _ home.

Ecologists will track the exotic pythons, all captured in Florida, to determine if they can survive in climates a few hundred miles to the north. Using implanted radio transmitters and data recorders, the scientists will monitor the pythons' body temperature and physical condition.

The test could show whether the giant imported snakes, which can grow up to lengths of 25 feet, are able to spread throughout the Southeast.

The fast-growing population of snakes has been invading southern Florida's ecosystem since 1992, when scientists speculate a bevy of Burmese pythons was released into the wild after Hurricane Andrew shattered many pet shop terrariums.

Now scientists fear this invasive species is silently slithering northward.

"They of course have an impact on native species," said herpetologist Whit Gibbons, a professor of ecology at the University of Georgia and a member of the python project. "If you have a big old python eating five times as much as another species that eats the same prey, it's a competitive thing." The pythons compete with alligators, among other top predators.

Gibbons said a human is "just another prey item" to a python _ especially a small human. Pythons are constrictor snakes and have been known to eat people in their native areas of Southeast Asia, he added.

"A 20-foot python, if it grabbed one of us, would bite us and then within just _ instantly _ seconds, it would be wrapped all the way around you and squeezing the life out of you," Gibbons said.

While pythons don't make a habit of attacking people and most aren't large enough to eat a person, Gibbons called the possibility a "nightmare."

"What about the first kitty cat they eat? Or the first little poodle? They'd love poodles, I imagine," he said.

Mike Dorcas, a professor at Davidson College in North Carolina, has sliced open pythons in Florida to find the remains of white-tailed deer, bobcats and large birds.

Dorcas is leading the experiment at the Savannah River Ecology Lab as part of a collaboration between the U.S. Geological Service, the National Park Service and the University of Florida.
He was prompted by a study released last year showing that the native habitat of Burmese pythons in Asia is a climate match for much of the southeastern U.S.

"The question is really, well, can they survive in a place like South Carolina or North Carolina or Arkansas or Tennessee?" Dorcas said.

One day before releasing the pythons into the pit, Dorcas snapped on latex gloves and surgically implanted radio transmitters into all seven. The transmitters enable scientists to keep track of the pythons' location and allow them to hunt down any that manage to escape.

What are the chances of escape? "We never want to say never. We've made the enclosure as snake-proof as possible but we've taken some other precautions," Dorcas said, noting that all of the pythons are males, so they wouldn't be able to reproduce.

The ecologists also inserted micro data loggers into each snake to record the internal temperature of the python every hour. After a year, Dorcas will remove the chips and download the information into a computer to discover how the snakes thermoregulate in a cooler climate.

Pythons are masters of disguise _ slippery and quick _ and all but one of the serpents was invisible within minutes of being deposited into the pit.

So counting pythons in the wild is a daunting task. Scientists don't have an accurate estimate of how many pythons are in Florida.

"It's certainly in the thousands, or tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands," said Gibbons.

Later,
Jim.

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CSRAJim

"A 20-foot python, if it grabbed one of us, would bite us and then within just _ instantly _ seconds, it would be wrapped all the way around you and squeezing the life out of you," Gibbons said.

"What about the first kitty cat they eat? Or the first little poodle? They'd love poodles, I imagine," he said.

I can't imagine why the media would like this stuff?

I can see somebody that knows what they are talking about joking around and saying junk like that in jest, but to be quoted by the media in a serious context is just irresponsible. He should try to clarify those remarks, but then again they would not get the same print.
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

Lance,

>> I can't imagine why the media would like this stuff?

I imagine it has something to do with either a continuation of the AR agenda “story line” or pure ignorance…Or perhaps it’s both and maybe it’s something else entirely but, one thing is for certain…Regardless of the story or where in the country it occurs, it’s the same old “stuff”. Sometimes you just have to scratch your head and wonder whether young “journalists” in college are taught how to perform even the most basic of research techniques…

>> I can see somebody that knows what they are talking about joking around and saying junk like that in jest, but to be quoted by the media in a serious context is just irresponsible. He should try to clarify those remarks, but then again they would not get the same print.

I can’t say one way or the other regarding the comments…You could be absolutely correct (just having a laugh at the expense of the reporter) but on the other hand…On what side of the “scientific fence” does Mr. Gibbons fall? Since the reporter was interviewing him, he had to KNOW that he would be quoted…

The grain of salt with me here is WHO is financing this “experiment” in the first place? Why it’s none other than the USGS, NPS and the UF…I believe it was the USGS that created the “invasion theory” in the first place with the “pseudo-science”…I think that info-documentary was entitled “Giant Snakes” (might have been another show) with that map at the end that showed the ever growing “invasion” of giant snakes coming to a neighborhood near you…Parents beware!

Now consider the ramifications if the premise of that info-documentary (what ever it was) is DISPROVED…Meaning the threat of giant snake is limited to southern Florida (local not national problem)…I mean depending on the results of this research, S.373 could be rendered irrelevant overnight…Sorry for my cynicism but, I wonder if the final report will be genuinely peer reviewed by numerous herpetologists or will it be only reviewed by the “sanctioned” scientists and then blessed for dissemination…In other words, will the “report” be one of integrity (science) or agenda (political)?

The jury will remain out with me until I can read it myself…

Later,
Jim.

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CSRAJim

"Gibbons said a human is 'just another prey item' "

This guy Gibbons is a herpetologist/scientist??
Holy cow, these guys are stepping it up a notch. Corrupt scientists and biased, non fact-checking media. Dangerous combination.

Jim, I agree with your skepticism. Is it reasonable to expect the USGS and NPS to do an about face and perform a reasonable, scientifically sound experiment that will basically destroy the theories that they are using to push their own agenda?

It will be interesting to see the results.

Thanks for the information,
Ed

>>Lance,
>>
>>>> I can't imagine why the media would like this stuff?
>>
>>I imagine it has something to do with either a continuation of the AR agenda “story line” or pure ignorance…Or perhaps it’s both and maybe it’s something else entirely but, one thing is for certain…Regardless of the story or where in the country it occurs, it’s the same old “stuff”. Sometimes you just have to scratch your head and wonder whether young “journalists” in college are taught how to perform even the most basic of research techniques…
>>
>>>> I can see somebody that knows what they are talking about joking around and saying junk like that in jest, but to be quoted by the media in a serious context is just irresponsible. He should try to clarify those remarks, but then again they would not get the same print.
>>
>>I can’t say one way or the other regarding the comments…You could be absolutely correct (just having a laugh at the expense of the reporter) but on the other hand…On what side of the “scientific fence” does Mr. Gibbons fall? Since the reporter was interviewing him, he had to KNOW that he would be quoted…
>>
>>The grain of salt with me here is WHO is financing this “experiment” in the first place? Why it’s none other than the USGS, NPS and the UF…I believe it was the USGS that created the “invasion theory” in the first place with the “pseudo-science”…I think that info-documentary was entitled “Giant Snakes” (might have been another show) with that map at the end that showed the ever growing “invasion” of giant snakes coming to a neighborhood near you…Parents beware!
>>
>>Now consider the ramifications if the premise of that info-documentary (what ever it was) is DISPROVED…Meaning the threat of giant snake is limited to southern Florida (local not national problem)…I mean depending on the results of this research, S.373 could be rendered irrelevant overnight…Sorry for my cynicism but, I wonder if the final report will be genuinely peer reviewed by numerous herpetologists or will it be only reviewed by the “sanctioned” scientists and then blessed for dissemination…In other words, will the “report” be one of integrity (science) or agenda (political)?
>>
>>The jury will remain out with me until I can read it myself…
>>
>>Later,
>>Jim.
>>
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>>CSRAJim

Ed,

Thanks…I’m not sure how to take the comments in the article without knowing Gibbons so I’ll just let his comments stand as stated in the article…

For me, it appears as though “information” is circulated within certain “circles” of the media and then “regurgitated” as a “story line” that certainly seems to have a "biased" flavor…

In both of the two articles below, you can see the reference to both the "info-documentary" and information cited by the USGS...

USARK (and many others) did yoeman's work in opposition to HR-669 as clearly, it HAS its supporters from both the media and the dot.org's...Which are VERY powerful behind the scenes on Capitol Hill...

Later,
Jim.

Here are a few more articles that are typical of the same old “stuff”…

From The Huffington Post (online)
Michael Markarian
Posted April 28, 2009 | 12:06 PM (EST)

"Swamp Things," a fascinating article by Burkhard Bilger in the April 20 issue of The New Yorker, describes how the exotic pet industry has helped transform the state of Florida into "a biological cesspool of introduced life." As fads of exotic birds, reptiles, and primates have come and gone, nonnative species have established themselves in the wild -- transported by hurricanes or deliberately set loose by their owners. As Bilger explains:

On a single tree you could conceivably find plants and animals from six continents, including parrots from South America, mynah birds and Old World climbing ferns from Asia, vervet monkeys from Africa, ladybird beetles from Australia, and feral cats from Europe, via Africa and Asia...The state's ecology is a kind of urban legend come true -- the old alligator-flushed-down-the-toilet story repeated a thousand times with a thousand species.

There have been well-known cases of exotic species that should never have been introduced in the U.S. -- whether they are the zebra mussels, the snakehead fish, or the Gambian rats that caused the 2003 multistate monkeypox outbreak. But the biggest problem for Florida is the new population of Burmese pythons living in the Everglades. These former "pets" can grow more than 20 feet long, weigh 200 pounds, and swallow an entire leopard.

Such ecological invasions can be prevented by a new bill being considered in Congress. The House Subcommittee on Insular Affairs, Oceans and Wildlife today held a hearing on H.R. 669, the Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act. Introduced by Subcommittee Chairwoman Madeleine Bordallo (D-Guam), a great friend to animals, the bill would set up a process for evaluating exotic wildlife species to determine whether they should be allowed or prohibited for importation and interstate commerce. The legislation is endorsed by The Humane Society of the United States, Humane Society Legislative Fund, Defenders of Wildlife, National Audubon Society, The Nature Conservancy, Union of Concerned Scientists, and a number of other conservation and animal protection groups.

Some pet industry groups are yelping and howling over the proposal, claiming it will end all pet ownership. We hear this rhetoric all the time from our opponents who can't defend inhumane practices on their merits, so they concoct some "slippery slope" justifications -- they say that curbing abuses at puppy mills will end all dog breeding, that phasing out confinement of farm animals in crates and cages will end all agriculture, that toughening the anti-cockfighting laws will eliminate the right to own roosters. But they're barking up the wrong tree.

First, the bill is aimed at exotic wildlife, not domestic household pets. It includes a specific exemption for cats, dogs, rabbits, goldfish, and horses. And the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is allowed to add more exempted species as it sees fit. The HSUS and HSLF are specifically requesting that hamsters, gerbils, guinea pigs, and ferrets be added to the exempted list.

Second, the legislation wouldn't ban any species immediately upon passage. It allows the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to start a process, based on scientific information with public input, to determine whether an exotic wildlife species is harmful or not. During that process, which will take three years, there would be no restrictions on trade. If a species is then determined to be harmful, it would be added to the prohibited list.

Third, the bill grandfathers in any current exotic pets. So if a wildlife species is determined to be harmful and banned in the future, it would halt imports and interstate trade from that point forward. People who already own those animals would not have them taken away.

As Chairwoman Bordallo said, this morning's hearing "should be seen as a starting point for a very important discussion. How can we proactively manage the influx of invasive species and reduce the economic and environmental costs associated with their establishment in the wild, but also be sensitive to legitimate concerns regarding the species that would be affected and realistic about the practicalities of implementation."

The fact is, this is a common-sense reform that takes a proactive approach. Hundreds of millions of wild animals are arriving in the U.S. at an alarming pace through Miami, Los Angeles, and other points of entry. By the time invasive species establish themselves here, it's often too late to do anything about the problems -- and attempts at doing so, even while tilting at windmills, are costly and inhumane. Preventing wild animals from entering this country in the first place, if they are determined to be dangerous, is better for the environment, the economy, public health, and animal welfare.

Contact your member of Congress and ask them to support H.R. 669. Tell them when it comes to nonnative wildlife, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

From Associated Content (online)
Burmese Python: South Florida's New Threat
March 15, 2009 by Imogen Rayne

The neighborhood residents in South Florida are facing a potential threat, which is roaming their neighborhoods. This new threat has residents that are living in fear of an exotic snake species that is called the Burmese Python. The National Wildlife Federation (2009) believes that these snakes were once pets, which became too big for their owners to handle. After being released in the wild, these abandoned pets began growing and rapidly reproducing.

Dangerous Neighbor

However, throughout the years, the snake population has expanded into the southeastern region of the United States. Now, experts believe that these snakes are becoming a major threat to the endangered species living in this habitat. No one is safe from this threat, since this species of snake can grow to over "20 ft" and weigh in at about "200lbs". Each resident of South Florida are at risk of attack, even inside their own homes.

Population Expands

According to the Clark (2009), these enormous snakes have already invaded the Key West area. Now, officials are "warning residents" and establishing a "hotline" for residents to call when they spot one. These giant ambush predators are on the hunt for a meal, so residents must closely supervise their animals and children. These monstrous snakes can hide under a bed or inside of a closet, while waiting patiently to ambush their unsuspecting prey.

Northern Bound

Nevertheless, if something doesn't change, these giant snakes will continue moving north. They will move to marshy lands, as they hunt for more food as they population continues to expand. According to NFW (2009), Florida's officials have established ways for residents to protect themselves from these snakes. However, it is vital for South Florida's residents to be cautious and protect themselves from these giant snakes.

Changes Needed

Some southern cities are training volunteer and hiring professionals to help capture these massive snakes. Homeowner's are even trying to make sure their home is snake resistant, by leaving them no place to hide. Furthermore, parents and pet owners should also take precaution against these giant predators. This type of proactive attitude will help keep your loved ones safe, while officials work tirelessly to solve this expanding threat.

Conclusion

In conclusion, South Florida's is facing new threats, as this massive bohemian began expanding into the surrounding areas. Fortunately, officials have warned residents about this giant predator. If something isn't done soon, this new threat will begin ambushing those victims in its quest to find food. Therefore, officials and residents are fighting back, while becoming proactive against these invaders.

References:
Clark, C. (2009) When snakes invade, call the wranglers
Retrieved on February 28th, 2009 from the World Wide Web
http://m.miamiherald.com/mh/db_503/contentdetail.htm;jsessionid=FB420B25FB38774856136CF08867091F?contentguid=6bxEWjKB&storycount=3&detailindex=2&full=true
National Wildlife Foundation (2009) Everglade Invasion
Retrieved on February 28th, 2009 from the World Wide Web
http://www.nwf.org/NationalWildlife/article.cfm?issueID=127&articleID=1683
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CSRAJim

Gibbons is a very respected herpetologist. Recognize the name Graptemys gibbonsi? I was surprised by his comments, too, but he's a tongue in cheek guy, so he might not have realized how it would sound to the general public, although at the same time, I'm sure he's done plenty of press interviews before and know how those people are.

I've been interviewed by, and been privy to behind the scenes information on a few interviews by, the press, and I can tell you right now, they almost NEVER get it 100% right.

Katrina