Reptile & Amphibian Forums

It is my understanding that kinks in snakes are caused by temperature fluctuations while the snake is developing in the egg. If a snake has a kink, is it likely to be passed on in their genetics? In other words, are they het for kinks? Has anyone bred a snake with a kink or have any experience with this?
Any comments would be appreciated.
snake adventures

this is a big debate. There are those who think kinks are genetic, others lean to the incubation temps. I favor the incubation theory, as I have witnessed it myself. The only kinks I have ever had were all in an incubator that spiked its temps.

I would also love to hear from those who have bred snakes with kinks.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Due to intense Mind fog, all thoughts have been grounded."

my corn eggs are on a shelf over the sink....

should be around 82 degrees....

heater sucks...goes up and down...if I touch it it goes too far either way...LOL...anyways...

been from 78 to 88 all the time...weeks now since the weather warmed up...so I try and run it 80's upper all day and drop it at night....doesn't walways work...so they have been to 88 alot...yea I know...84 sucks...and I used to complain and cry at 84...now...at 88 I don't care...they are hatching fine as we read.......smaller than if it was 82 all the time???? maybe...not sure....

....kinked babies can and will pop up at will in any clutch....I usually kill them....the first corns this year, amel het snow to snow ...all fine...mostly snows...one baby amel was hooked to itself for over an inch...it died after 2 days...(I usually just throw them in freezer for snake food ,but this one happened to be placed into a cup with moss to see how long it would live, 2 days)....
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......16
......104/ 11-4
...........................
1(1.normal,.1mojave,2.1 spider mojaves)
2(1.normal,1.pastel,spider?Huh,.1blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
3(2pastelghost,3pastel,1normal....)
4(2normal,7 pastel...)

You will get answers both ways and I am sure some experience both ways. I can testify that keeping eggs too wet does in fact cause kinks. However it would not surprise me to hear about temp kinks or even genetic kinks, as i am sure there could be many types.

Currently i have 1 snake that is so severely kinked she looks like she was ran over by a bicycle. She eats breeds with no problems and all babies come out perfect.
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Dan S.
Crotalus & Company-- Captive Bred Reptiles

Herplink-- Reptile Link Exchange

>>You will get answers both ways and I am sure some experience both ways. I can testify that keeping eggs too wet does in fact cause kinks. However it would not surprise me to hear about temp kinks or even genetic kinks, as i am sure there could be many types.
>>
>>Currently i have 1 snake that is so severely kinked she looks like she was ran over by a bicycle. She eats breeds with no problems and all babies come out perfect.
>>-----
>>Dan S.

Every season I would have eggs go almost full term but wouldn't hatch, I would have large eggs but small hatchlings and would also get random kinked hatchlings.
I was incubating my eggs in containers with no air holes and very moist conditions. Upon reflection I felt as if I was
keeping the eggs/substrate too moist.
It just seemed to me as if the eggs were absorbing too much moisture and this wasn't allowing enough room for the embryos to grow properly. This may be stupid or it may be possible. I’m not sure...BUT ….I decided to do things a little differently to see what would happen.
I have always used sphagnum moss and didn't change that. I figured if my plan didn't make a difference I could change my incubation media next time. It’s just easier for me to gauge moisture levels with sphagnum moss then vermiculite.
So, the first change was using containers with air holes. I prepared the sphagnum moss as usual then squeezed as much water out as possible. If I felt it was too moist I added more moss until I got it “just right”
I wanted to keep things to the dry side. The only time I even thought about adding water was if the eggs started to dimple. Which was rare. The moss always dries from the edges of the container in, towards the eggs. The eggs draw the water to them much the same as plants do. Or at least I would assume this to be the case.
I also had a bad habit of occasionally misting the eggs. I quit doing this after reading that misting could actually clog the microscopic pores in the eggs (Thanks Don S.) I thought fat, plump eggs were the way to go.
Of course, fat plump eggs are good but only if it is natural growth and not over absorption of moisture. (my opinion anyway)
Ok, I had 188 eggs laid. Of these, 184 were left after a couple of weeks. I always expect to loose a few in the first few weeks.
Of these 184 eggs 180 hatched. None had kinks. It could be a fluke or it may just work. That is a 97% hatch rate. My normal hatch rate was in the mid to high 80’s. That’s a pretty good jump. There were always eggs that would look good all the way to hatch time but just wouldn’t hatch. I would open the eggs and there would be a fully formed neonate, or very close to it, but they just weren’t able to hatch. There also seemed to be extra “stuff” in the eggs. I don’t know the proper terminology here but for lack of a better descriptive a wad of “goo”. I just believe this was caused by too much moisture. All speculative of course. As I stated earlier I usually get a few kinked hatchlings every season and like most, I attributed it to heat spikes. I do think that is one of the causes, but I also feel that too much moisture absorbed into the eggs could have been a cause as well. I’m thinking the “cramped” egg just doesn’t allow proper growth. As I said, I may be crazy but it seemed to work going as dry as possible. The temps ranged between 78 to around 87 so I honestly don't feel temps were as much a factor as moisture when it came to kinks and eggs not making it to full term.
This season I am trying it again. I should start getting some pippies any day now. I only have 139 eggs this year. It will be inetersting to see how many hatch and if there are any deformities. Time will tell..
I could be crazy or it may just work.
sorry to ramble
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

..you open eggs and there was extra gunk /junk in there....yolk sac?.....probably...they absorb the last of the yolk sac right before pipping,,,,at times they don't and you will get a skinny baby.....anyways....just thought I'd say about the yolk sac....balls (pythons)...have big gunk balls....LOL......(you should see if the baby comes out of the egg really really fat then it's intestines don't close up properly...the "button" area pops open and all the absorbed yolk comes out and all over the tub...sticky disgusting gunk it is.....yes baby ball will usually die from this....
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......16
......104/ 11-4
...........................
1(1.normal,.1mojave,2.1 spider mojaves)
2(1.normal,1.pastel,spider?Huh,.1blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
3(2pastelghost,3pastel,1normal....)
4(2normal,7 pastel...)

>>..you open eggs and there was extra gunk /junk in there....yolk sac?.....probably...they absorb the last of the yolk sac right before pipping,,,,at times they don't and you will get a skinny baby.....anyways....just thought I'd say about the yolk sac....balls (pythons)...have big gunk balls....LOL......(you should see if the baby comes out of the egg really really fat then it's intestines don't close up properly...the "button" area pops open and all the absorbed yolk comes out and all over the tub...sticky disgusting gunk it is.....yes baby ball will usually die from this....
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>>......16

I was thinking yolk sac but it just seemed pretty damn big. It seems disproportionate to the size of the baby. I guess I'm just not used to seeing an unabsorbed yolk sac.
Yeah, I've had a few hatch that hadn't completely absorbed the yolk sac. I few with too much that don't make it a few with just a little that do.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

thats amazing that the female with kinks breeds fine. I would think the females with kinks would egg bind
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Due to intense Mind fog, all thoughts have been grounded."

>>thats amazing that the female with kinks breeds fine. I would think the females with kinks would egg bind
>>-----
>>****Misty****
>>
>>www.sneakyserpents.com
>>
>>"Due to intense Mind fog, all thoughts have been grounded."

I guess it would just depend on where the kinks are and how bad they are. Even with kinks the body expands at feeding time so I guess if a mouse can go in one end a few eggs can go out the other....lol
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

If I remember reading the post earlier, the description was that the female was badly kinked.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Due to intense Mind fog, all thoughts have been grounded."

>>If I remember reading the post earlier, the description was that the female was badly kinked.
>>-----

I've got a butter that I took in as a rescue back in '02 that is what I would classify as severly kinked. She can't straighten out or crawl in a straight line...but...she eats a large adult mouse every week.
Even though her spine is kinked her body still expands and the food doesn't have any trouble going down.
I guess if the most severe kink isn't at the cloace then it could work the same way. The body just expands away from the spine. The eggs are quite plyable until they are laid.
Just thinking out loud here.
Although I don't think most kinks are genetic I wouldn't really want to breed her for the fear that there could be complications and the chance that it just may be genetic. Although you don't see it with the F1's you never know when it may pop up.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Right for the location on her i never had any doubt she would breed. The kink is high up. But she passes food no problem. My main point is that not all kinks are genetically transferred. Even though such bad info is often spewed all over the net

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Dan S.
Crotalus & Company-- Captive Bred Reptiles

Herplink-- Reptile Link Exchange

Getting a little off the main topic, but since I already stated my opinion, its alright. lol

Jimmy's logic seems true. I was just going off old info that kinked females will likely bind. Also, I missread your post. I was thinking the female in question had multiple kinks throughout her body. I am not judging at all, but was just curious
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Due to intense Mind fog, all thoughts have been grounded."

I have used snakes with one or maybe a couple LITTLE kinks and they were fine...they become breeders due tot he fact that you cannot sell the junk ,so you get stuck with it...or they happened to be the best or even the only one of a certain morph I made that year...no problems...

I had a corn actually,ultra...she was the only one that lived and was perfect frosted pattern and all....great ultra(mel) ...she was kinked...all over...I had her and tried to breed her ,to see what would happen, for like 4 or 5 years I bred her....this year she threw a few duds ,less than normal...all duds...always.....she is now solid(cold)....gone...I will not keep really kinked animals anymore...this was a once and done experiment...

like I said...one little heat kink....no problem PROBABLY....

....
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......16
......104/ 11-4
...........................
1(1.normal,.1mojave,2.1 spider mojaves)
2(1.normal,1.pastel,spider?Huh,.1blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
3(2pastelghost,3pastel,1normal....)
4(1 normal,4 pastel...

Well, IMHO, if the baby came from the egged kinked, not worth me creating the chance of passing on poor genetics.. Often I sell them off as pet qaulity... If the animal kinked itself in a fight or flee situation as a baby, I don;t think there is much of a hesistation from me.. The spins in the little one seem very "soft" as opposed to older and more developed ones..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

Thanks for all of the input. I have a male that has 2 slight kinks near the tail, but has an incredible pattern and I wanted to get some info on others' experiences before I just used him to breed. Thanks to those that took the time to respond.
Have a good one.
Robby
ps. I will make sure to keep my eggs dry and at a constant and correct temp.
snake adventures