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Pictures and a question?

McCarthyBoas Jun 27, 2009 08:21 PM

I am not a corn snake guy so I don't know much about the genetics of corn snakes but my son wants to breed his female albino corn snake. So I borrowed my friends male Carmel corn so my son can give it a try. Now I have a question for the corn snake gurus here what should I expect out of this pairing and if you can post some pictures of what that babies will look like? I plan on keeping only a few babies for my son and give my Vet the corn of his choice and my buddy will get the rest of the babies. Here are some pictures of the adult corn snakes.

Thank you,
Tom

First is the female.

Second is the male.


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McCarthyBoas.com

Replies (12)

draybar Jun 27, 2009 08:31 PM

>>I am not a corn snake guy so I don't know much about the genetics of corn snakes but my son wants to breed his female albino corn snake. So I borrowed my friends male Carmel corn so my son can give it a try. Now I have a question for the corn snake gurus here what should I expect out of this pairing and if you can post some pictures of what that babies will look like? I plan on keeping only a few babies for my son and give my Vet the corn of his choice and my buddy will get the rest of the babies. Here are some pictures of the adult corn snakes.
>>
>>Thank you,
>>Tom
>>

That female is very very nice....BUT...I think the male is a ghost not a caramel. A nice ghost, though.
A ghost is anerythristic and hypomelanistic
your "albino" is amelanistic.

If you breed these together you will get all normals het for amel, anery and hypo.
This is assuming neither has any hidden hets.
If the male is actually a caramel the babies will still be normals but they will be het amel and caramel.
Once again unless there are hidden hets.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

McCarthyBoas Jun 27, 2009 10:27 PM

Thanks for your input I do appreciate it. My buddy also has some other male corns as in a bloodred motley, snow, hypo and a butter should I have used one of these male instead of the Carmel? He thought the Carmel was a good pairing. Me and my son like the albinos and sunglows the best as we just don't like the normal looking corns. Now if these where boas I would have used the motley or the hypo.

Thanks
Tom
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McCarthyBoas.com

DonSoderberg Jun 28, 2009 08:50 AM

Like Jimmy, I'm 95% certain that's a ghost corn. The owner should send a picture to the person from whom he got him, and ask their opinion. If he just purchased it at a pet store (and presuming Jimmy and I are correct), they had it mis-labeled.

Regardless, breeding those two together (and presuming neither is in possession of mutations common to both), you'll get all normals - het for parent phenotypes (and some could be het for mutations carried by the parents, but not exhibited).

Don
South Mountain Reptiles

McCarthyBoas Jun 28, 2009 09:26 AM

Hi Don,

Thanks for your input to Don I do appreciate it. I will let my buddy know about his corn snake. By the way I love your website very nicely done.

Take care
Tom
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McCarthyBoas.com

DonSoderberg Jun 28, 2009 10:27 AM

Thanx for liking our site. The new SMR site should be up and running in a few weeks, and it will be much larger and better.

Keep in mind that Jimmy and I are guessing on the phenotype of the male (based on our cornsnake resumes), but there were actually no caramel markers obvious in that pic. Though unusual for a ghost, all the colors on him said ghost, and the yellow was relegated to the sides in classic anery/ghost yellow zones VS caramels having that yellow/gold/green coloration over their entire bodies. BTW, great photography.

Don

South Mountain Reptiles

McCarthyBoas Jun 28, 2009 10:42 AM

Hi Don,

The male corn is going to shed very soon so after he sheds I will post some new pictures of him. Now with boas I don't like the ghost boas as they look like a boa in shed all the time. I will never own a ghost boa I only breed what I like. I like seeing lots of color in my snakes, the male corn has some nice yellow in his sides so I will see how he turns out after he sheds. I will be looking forwarded to seeing your new website.

Take care
Tom
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McCarthyBoas.com

PHLdyPayne Jun 28, 2009 11:31 AM

How genetics work is the same for all animals.. recessive traits require two 'genes' of that trait for the animal to show it visually. There are also dominant and co-dominant traits that only require a single gene with that trait...but in the co-dominant state, if both genes (or alleles actually) are the same, then the resulting animal appears far different than it does with just one alleles of that co-dominant trait and the wild type (what you expect the majority of the animal to look like in the wild (or called normal).

Corn snakes only have one or two co-dominant traits that I know of..one being the 'ultra' but I can't remember if there is a second... Ball pythons on the other hand, have all kinds of co-dominant traits. I don't know enough about boa constrictor genetics to know if they have alot of co-dominant traits...I think they do...but don't know what they are.

The site below explains genetics, especially regarding corns far better than I...though it goes in far better depth than I did.

www.vmsherp.com/LCGenetics101.htm

Oh and one thing about corn snakes... the pigment yellow tends to develop later in life, usually 6-9 months after birth.

One thing to keep in mind too is many pet store corn snakes could come from breeders getting rid of their excess..and some may carry recessive traits in their genetics if the full history of each snake isn't known. Or breeders may sell 'het' snakes either unknowingly or they could be from breedings that produce possible hets which can't normally be identified visually (the snake looks exactly like a non het animal would look like, in regards to recessive traits. If you bred your albino female to a perfectly normal male, the babies will all look normal but be 'het' for albino. Breed a baby back to its mother and the offspring from that pairing will produce albinos and hets.

Motleys snakes are a pattern mutation (albinos is a color mutation, as it only affects the color of the animal, not its natural pattern). So you would get all hets from that pairing too. If your female was het for motley then some of her young when paired with a moltley would appear motley.

Hidden/unknown hets can result in nice surprises in the clutch of babies. I bred my two normal corn snakes who I had no idea what sort of hets they have...and it turned out both were het anery. One or the other could be het for something else but I won't know what it is unless I do line breeding with the offspring and see what happens. I don't plan to do this...as I rather work with unrelated animals whenever possible. That and I would like to produce a line of snow corns that get bigger than 4'. All the snow corns i have seen personally were under that length. I know corn snakes can range from 3'-5' normally, but small size in snows seems common. (at least around here). Both of my normal looking adult corns are at or very near the 5' mark. (they may be over it too, hard to get an accurate measurement when they won't stay still long enough to 'string' measure them).
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PHLdyPayne

DonSoderberg Jun 28, 2009 11:56 AM

Tessera is the other dominant-type mutation in corns at this time (other than ultra) and unlike the ultra mutation that is co-dominant with amel, Tessera appears to be dominant to non-mutant corns. Insufficient breeding trials have been performed to make that definitive, but the indication at this time is that Tessera dominates all non-mutation corns.
South Mountain Reptiles

McCarthyBoas Jun 29, 2009 02:27 PM

Hi Don,

I have only heard of a few corn snake experts (as I am a boa guy) and you are one of them. So I do value your opinion of this male corn very much.

Here are some new pictures of the male corn snake as he shed last night. He looks more like a caramel than a ghost compared to the ones posted on your website. This one doesn't have as much yellow as your caramel but it does have some yellow in him. Your ghost looks more light and dark gray to me and no tan / caramel or yellow in him. I really appreciate your input on this guy. I don't really care if he is a caramel or a ghost I just want to be sure of what he is so when my son raises up a few of the babies he will know what they are when he start selling them.

Thank you,
Tom
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McCarthyBoas.com

DonSoderberg Jun 29, 2009 03:32 PM

It's a ghost for sure. Females are gray, and most males have obvious (if not predominant) flesh tones. Your male is an extreme version of that, but I'm certain it's a ghost corn.
South Mountain Reptiles

McCarthyBoas Jun 29, 2009 03:51 PM

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McCarthyBoas.com

tspuckler Jun 28, 2009 04:40 PM

The only type of babies you will get out on an amel (albino) corn are either visual normals (hets) or more amels. This is assuming that amel is the only trait the mother is carrying. As others have said, the male in the photos is a ghost.

If you bred a snow (amel X anery) to your snake, you'd get all amel offspring (again, assuming that amel is the only trait your snake is carrying).

As others have said, the vast majority of corn snake morphs are simple recessive genetic traits. This means you need to breed two snakes togather that are carrying the same trait to get offspring that aren't normal-looking.

Tim
Third Eye
Third Eye

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