Reptile & Amphibian Forums

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31684161/ns/us_news-life/

That darling little girl who was placed in harms way by ignorant parents....truly did well me up with tears for that innocent cherub

As for the article...note how it was mentioned that sometimes these snakes get to big and their owners release them into the "everglades"....not into the wild but only the everglades!

I HATE the medias that chose to report and write articles that are so biased and slanted.

Even though I am pissed off at the parents my heart gos out to them.
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Joel Thomas

Don't tread on me!

This seems so conveiniant happening right now with the other bad media helping our opponents who are trying to stop this hobby/industry. I think the parents should be contacted to make sure this isn't fake. If it's real....all I can say is more people die from dogs,cars,alcohol and tabacoo related ilnesses and they aren't banned. This one death will give our opponents all they need to sway things in their favor.

"This seems so conveiniant happening right now with the other bad media helping our opponents who are trying to stop this hobby/industry."

Anytime a snake is involved in an injury or death. The media will sensationalize it. The "timing" of this "accident" may be bad, but just imagine how the parents of that little girl feels.

"I think the parents should be contacted to make sure this isn't fake."

FAKE!!!! How could you even suggest that such a thing could be a "fake". A child is DEAD and you're wondering if it's fake or not?!?!?!?!?!!

"If it's real....all I can say is more people die from dogs,cars,alcohol and tabacoo related ilnesses and they aren't banned."

That's just COLD!!!! How insensivtive can you get?? You make it sound like her life didn't matter. You make her sound like she's just another "statistic". That's really cold......

"This one death will give our opponents all they need to sway things in their favor."

This one death will leave an empty place in the hearts of her parents, siblings, grandparents, and other relatives. This was a sensless death that "could" have been provented. I'm sure her parents are beating themselves up over this "one death".........

Just as I know the parents will most likely be prosecuted in a court of law over this "one death".

Like I said character assasination.lol. I just went from a man that's concerned for our rights to do as we please with these animals to a cold hearted man. Would like to clarify some things. When I said fake I meant as in media fabricated to scare people. This was said before I saw any real facts. The msnbc link I posted didn't have much info.
As far as the life lost. My daughter is two years old. I would be devastated if my carelessness caused her death. I'm sure the parents feel destroyed inside. This will probabaly make them join the other side to get large constrictors banned.

is terrible but questions alway have to be asked. What if this was child abuse, and the parents are actually
the cause of this childs death ?
I think we will hear more about the real facts soon.
Just not from the media who reported the false allegations.

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

"As for the article...note how it was mentioned that sometimes these snakes get to big and their owners release them into the "everglades"....not into the wild but only the everglades!

I HATE the medias that chose to report and write articles that are so biased and slanted. "

That's NOT what the article said. You've got to be as accurate as you want others to be in regards to the issue of keeping constrictors. This is what the article said:

"When the snakes become too large, some owners release them into the Everglades and other wild areas, Florida officials say."

I know it's a minor detail, but accuracy is key in debating this.

Horrible

What a tragedy! It seems like the state of Florida has it in
for little girls, what with all of the recent murders and
abductions.

You just know that the parents will face prosecution. The
article doesn't really have any details so let's see what
really happened.

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I've always felt that
Burms, African Rocks, rets, and green anacondas should not
be so readily available to anyone willing to pay for them.
If they were more expensive or harder to buy then that would
minimize the numbers of ill-prepared hobbyists to a greater
degree.

I'm afraid that we are going to get screwed here in the state
of Florida.

owning both retics and boas for a long time now, i am all for having to purchase tags or licenses for owning these massive and powerful animals. i would gladly pay a licensing fee for any of my animals as well as future ones that i would like to obtain. if there were more restrictions on these animals (as well as other animals out there), maybe the idiots would think twice about getting one (or more) of these to be cool, then something very tragic like this (and other tragedies), maybe would be cut down dramatically. so many sellers of these animals want to make the almighty buck and will sell to anybody willing to pay for an animal of theirs. there should be more a more rigerous application process in order to obtain these great but very powerful animals. i have many, many times refused people purchasing after questioning them and their habbits and plans for retics being purchased (or traded) from me. which is a huge reason, i keep such a small amount of breeders on hand generally at one time, so i am not overrun with clutches and have to hurry and sell them all as quick as possible. just my 2 cents. all in all, its a tragic incident that, so easily, could have been avoided. unfortunately, its like the kid drowning epidemic we see every single summer here in arizona. so tragic, but so easily avoidable
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retic is king of kings

1.0 Tiger Retic
1.0 Albino Tiger Retic
0.1 Striped Tiger Retic (het albino)
0.1 Salmon Boa
1.0 Albino Boa
0.1 False Water Cobra

I've always wanted a Burm but would never get one when I had young children. Just like I would never get a Rottweiler or a Pit Bull with young kids in the house. It's just common sense. It's a shame when parents care more about their own wants and needs than that of their children.

And i agree with you that most people shouldn't keep a large(10' ) snakes. Most people can't take care of them properly. I think too many people buy them on a whim.

i would never hesitate having a pit bull, rottie, retic, burm, annie, rock or any other "forbiden animals around young kids". if the kids are properly informed and you are a proper keeper, there should never be any accidents. same as with keeping guns in the house. my whole family had guns and large snakes around all my life since i was born. my family taught me properly and they were proper keepers. never an "accident" in my family. its not the snakes fault, its not the childs fault, its not really even the media's fault. it is the fault of the "keeper" of the snake, and the childs parents for this tragic event. when i was a kid and around guns and such non-stop, it was understood that yes those are guns, those are snakes, those are knives, they can easily hurt and/or kill people, you do not mess with any of them without an adult present, period. problem is, back then we actually had parents that were proper parents and responsible, and we, as children, respected, listened and minded our elders. kids and parents of today, do not have that, and its sad.
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retic is king of kings

1.0 Tiger Retic
1.0 Albino Tiger Retic
0.1 Striped Tiger Retic (het albino)
0.1 Salmon Boa
1.0 Albino Boa
0.1 False Water Cobra

Well that's where you and I are different. I put my kid's needs above my own.

Hey Tree, is there anything we can do to try to help the family?
Or anything we can d for the Media? I know someone in this
Industry that works for the news media.... maybe we can play
some cards to get one of those big Python breeders to speak on
behalf of the Boids. 10-1 the parents are ot blaming the snake
and if they did, then yes, we are screwed.
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Kenny Bowman

"Symetry Exotics"
Honesty is the only route to TRUE respect, anything else is unacceptable....

you know how rare it is for people to die by lightning strike ? Very rare but it happens much much more than some human killed by a huge constrictor.

When this hits the floor of the senate I think we need to bring out the facts. percentages of constrictor related deaths as opposed to other animals or lightning lol.

As far as what the parents claim , facts are facts. If the snake killed the two year old the media will grab this and run with it. must be in their best interest to ( paid media perhaps?).

I'm sure they will be prosecuted and i'm sorry rightly so. Come on letting a 2 year old have access to a large contrictor without observation. What will be even worse is when they say it got loose.........

Very true. Thanks for sharing this with us. Its good to have
people like you scouting everything out. Thanks again
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Kenny Bowman

"Symetry Exotics"
Honesty is the only route to TRUE respect, anything else is unacceptable....

Here's from that article....

"The baby's dead!" the sobbing caller from the house screamed to a 911 dispatcher in a recording. "Our stupid snake got out in the middle of the night and strangled the baby."

"She got out of the cage last night and got into the baby's crib and strangled her to death," the caller said.

Wasn't sure what you meant by....it'll be even worse when they say it got loose. As far as who says that, and when. But lightning strikes won't be a good arguement. That simply can't be controlled. If there's no pet snakes though, then that CAN be controlled. Now, dog attacks can be controlled and feral cat populations in Florida that decimate wildlife. The solution they use-Capture them and sterilize them, then release them to keep on killing. That is ridiculous and might be a good comparison???

What a waste, a precious little life lost.

Such a tragedy could have and should have been avoided. Just like the deaths of children by being left in a car on a hot day.

Problem is the media will get ahold of this and sensationalize it. You never hear about responsible keepers like myself who have been faced with similar situations and took care of it the proper way. 18 years ago I had a female Burm, at 11.5 feet was getting big and still a young, growing fast, python. I also had a wife who was pregnant. I chose to sell my burm and not have an animal in the house that could cause such a tragedy. Not because my wife said so, this was something I thought of and acted on myself.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count (05/26/2009):
36.51 BRB
29.42 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Here's a link to more info.
Link

Ooooo wow twelve people have been killed by constrictors in twenty nine years. Not reason to ban in my opinion.

As far as what we can do. That depends on what your willing to do. Have you noticed all the character assassination being done by the media lately? Who's cheating on who.who's doing illegal drugs. Who's stealing. Who's gay. All I can say is how well do we know our opponents and are they in the positions where it's best for them to bow out vs fight.

from the story "Charles Darnell, the boyfriend of the girl's mother....
....Darnell told deputies he left the snake in an aquarium in a bag when the family went to sleep. "

He left a 12' python in a bag in an 'aquarium' for the night? It is so tragic and sad that this man's improper safety and knowledge of housing a large snake resulted in the death of an innocent little girl.

very sad.
-April
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

This is extremely tragic this Darnell obviously isn't qualified to keep any snakes.
Do we know for a fact the python really killed her ?
What I do know is that this story and the E.G Python stories
are entirely unrelated .
The EG. Python story has no place in this tragic death
of a little girl story
Another instance of bad reporting and exploiting the death of the
little girl to shed light on the E.G. Python story ,
sick bad judgment a very sad situation.

. . . Lar M

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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

I agree, this is one of the most disgusting examples of agenda-pushing exploitation that I've ever seen. I'm literally nauseated right now.

>>This is extremely tragic this Darnell obviously isn't qualified to keep any snakes.
>>Do we know for a fact the python really killed her ?
>>What I do know is that this story and the E.G Python stories
>>are entirely unrelated .
>>The EG. Python story has no place in this tragic death
>>of a little girl story
>>Another instance of bad reporting and exploiting the death of the
>> little girl to shed light on the E.G. Python story ,
>>sick bad judgment a very sad situation.
>>
>> . . . Lar M
>>
>>-----
>>Boas By Klevitz
>>Boas By Klevitz
>>

Did you get me e-mail yesterday? Let me know when you get a chance.

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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-python-strangles-child-death-sumter-070109,0,7732901.story

Problem #1-It says that "he was in his glass aquarium when when we went to bed". Aquariums are for fish and gerbils not snakes.

Problem #2-The Boa was in a bag..A a snake bag? Even so, they are not meant for extended confinement.

Problem #3- 2 adults and 3 children (not his BTW) living in a trailer (mobile home) and you bring in a 12' (probably actually only 8 or 9')snake and a 6'Boa?? Isn't space limited enough??

Problem #4- All he caught was a misdemeanor charge for not having a ROC permit?? Are you kidding me?? This is at the very least child neglect if not child endangerment.If he HAD to have these they should have been kept in the parents LOCKED bedroom, not in a commmon living area.Living room is bad for the snakes as well as the kids.

Problem #5-They were waitiong on search warrants for the house to look for the snakes?? Isn't the "un-natural" scene of a child's death cause enough for them to go in and look for what ever they want?? I think those deputies were just too scared to go in looking for it.

BOTH of these (let me stay PC here) INDIVIDUALS better be brought up on charges.Despite the fact of obvious lack of parenting skills, they just don't seem to be real intelligent all around.That poor little child should never have been put in the position she was put in. I'm off my soapbox....for now.
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0.1.0 Burmese Python 12'- "Baby"
1.0.0 Albino Granite Burmese Python 6.5'-"Capone"
0.1.0 Albino Burmese Python 11'-"Lacy Underall"
1.0.0 Retic 8.5'-"McLovin"
1.0.0 Retic 13'- "Carl Spackler"
1.0.0 African Rock Python 9'-"Pauly Walnuts"
1.1.0 Ball Pythyons "Yoda" & "Abbey Sciuto"
1.0.0 BCI 7.5'-"Mr.Pink"
0.2.0 BCI 6'-"Scarlett O'Hara & Sloane Peterson"
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons-"Radar O'Reilly & Carol Anne"

.
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Joel Thomas

Don't tread on me!

Hello, The snake did not kill this little girl. Andrew

Thanks Andrew I had a feeling form the beginning something wasn't right.
So it was probably staged to look this way I bet and the
parents (Darnell) is to blame.
This is why I asked the question "Do we know for certain how she died ?"
The whole story sounded off , bad reporting and possibly
bad investigating
At the very least premature release of information to the media

Thanks Andrew

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

lead you to that conclusion?
-----
-Ryan Homsey
TopNotchBoas.com Website

Ryan I personally have no information to prove this point. Hopefully Andrew will post further updates to clarify
this sad situation.
I can only speculate what took place.

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

Yes, feel free to elaborate.We're listening.
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0.1.0 Burmese Python 12'- "Baby"
1.0.0 Albino Granite Burmese Python 6.5'-"Capone"
0.1.0 Albino Burmese Python 11'-"Lacy Underall"
1.0.0 Retic 8.5'-"McLovin"
1.0.0 Retic 13'- "Carl Spackler"
1.0.0 African Rock Python 9'-"Pauly Walnuts"
1.1.0 Ball Pythyons "Yoda" & "Abbey Sciuto"
1.0.0 BCI 7.5'-"Mr.Pink"
0.2.0 BCI 6'-"Scarlett O'Hara & Sloane Peterson"
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons-"Radar O'Reilly & Carol Anne"

Ryan, my bad I should have predicated that these were only my personal opinions. I have not a scintilla of information that indicates what really happened. I have no other information other than my gut and intuition to guide me. This smells like BS. Andrew

A little baby girl has lost her life I think that it may be a bit of a stretch to think this was staged for media profit. I for one do not belive much the media is selling but as told to law enforcement: Darnell awoke to the snake wrapped around the little one and he started to stab with a knife.

It was told that Daenell kept the 12' python in an aqarium and insde a bag when the family slept WTF!!! This type of housing for python/large boa is child endangerment, I can only imagine that he let the snakes have free run of the house during the day.

I have said this before...we need to try and find a way to regulate our own industry for who can keep these large constrictors and what type of enclosures are suitable, if we don't the government WILL get involved and we wont like it.

Irresponsibility killed this child, not the pythons fault...DANG

I know for those with children this story hits home in another way as well...what a tragedy
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Joel Thomas

Don't tread on me!

I couldn't agree more!!!
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All about the U!!!!

Joel, I'm saddened just like you by the loss of life, especially a child. I reiterate, the snake had nothing to do with it. Andrew

have said this before...we need to try and find a way to regulate our own industry for who can keep these large constrictors and what type of enclosures are suitable, if we don't the government WILL get involved and we wont like it.

I don't like having restrictions put on me. But if I had to choice to create my own restrictions vs uncle sam having their way I'd prefer we set our own limits.

Many years ago The Chicago Herp Society reprinted notes from a pathologist who had carried out an autopsy on a 14 year old male who had been killed by a fourteen foot Burmese Python. Did the fact a Burmese killed a young man make national news.....? Nope. How many of you remember that incident..? Andrew

You know what? I never stopped to think that maybe this dirtbag may have actually just wanted the poor little girl out of the picture for one reason or another,and that this was the best way he could come up with to attempt to cover it up.Stranger things have happened I guess, you could be right.Boy, they sucked me right in huh? I guess only time will tell.
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0.1.0 Burmese Python 12'- "Baby"
1.0.0 Albino Granite Burmese Python 6.5'-"Capone"
0.1.0 Albino Burmese Python 11'-"Lacy Underall"
1.0.0 Retic 8.5'-"McLovin"
1.0.0 Retic 13'- "Carl Spackler"
1.0.0 African Rock Python 9'-"Pauly Walnuts"
1.1.0 Ball Pythyons "Yoda" & "Abbey Sciuto"
1.0.0 BCI 7.5'-"Mr.Pink"
0.2.0 BCI 6'-"Scarlett O'Hara & Sloane Peterson"
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons-"Radar O'Reilly & Carol Anne"

It would not shock me to here that Darnell may be covering up some kind of crime....but for now unfortunately I still believe the article

Sad commentary on our country
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Joel Thomas

Don't tread on me!

In no way do I mean to diminish the loss of this child when I post this. I just have to comment on the Humane Society statement:
at least 12 people have been killed in the U.S. by pet pythons since 1980, including five children.

Compare it to this statement:
The Consumer Product Safety Commission recorded 51 baseball-related deaths between 1973-1983, in children 5-14.

How can we put these deaths in perspective? My understanding is that more people are killed by dogs each year than snakes, more by horses than dogs, and that more people die in accidents involving deer than horses. Should there be any snake related deaths of this type? No, certainly not.
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give up television - 100% cold turkey. Leave what isn't real and go to what is real.
Spend time with nature, see the ground and the sky, feel your place on this earth,
see the trees, the plants, birds, animals, feel their life. And feel your own life.
Dr. William Pierce (paraphrased)

Hello, I swear I'm not trying to be gross but why didn't the 2 year old child cry out in pain or distress. I've feed rabbits, rats and mice to snakes of all sizes for 2 decades and almost always you could hear the prey animal screaming. I can only Imagine(short of the fiery pits of hell) the horrific sounds that poor child must have been making while being slowly strangled to death, yet not a single person heard a sound. Andrew

Like I said I have a two year old daughter. They really arent very big at that age. If the Burm was really 12' long and struck the face then wrapped around the girls neck she might just get one scream out before her windpipe was cut off. not being able to breath she wouldnt be able to scream.

I just watched a clip on the local news that showed the
python being removed from the house.

It looked WAYYYY too small to have tried to kill a 2 year old
child.

This is very fishy. I hope the local law enforcement DO THEIR
JOBS on this & really investigate that family.

I thought it sounded extremely strange that a family with a 2
year old would not check on their child until after 10 AM in the
morning. Something is wrong with this story.

Yeah, first they said 12 then earlier tonight they said 8.5 I just saw it on the news....MIGHT be a healthy 6.5, with a big nasty stab wound about a foot back from his head.2 grown men hangin on to that thing with deathgrips like it was a 15 foot Retic, what a joke.
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0.1.0 Burmese Python 12'- "Baby"
1.0.0 Albino Granite Burmese Python 6.5'-"Capone"
0.1.0 Albino Burmese Python 11'-"Lacy Underall"
1.0.0 Retic 8.5'-"McLovin"
1.0.0 Retic 13'- "Carl Spackler"
1.0.0 African Rock Python 9'-"Pauly Walnuts"
1.1.0 Ball Pythyons "Yoda" & "Abbey Sciuto"
1.0.0 BCI 7.5'-"Mr.Pink"
0.2.0 BCI 6'-"Scarlett O'Hara & Sloane Peterson"
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons-"Radar O'Reilly & Carol Anne"

The Orlando Sentinal says as of 7:50pm they just caught the albino Burmese "moments ago" and it's only a little over 8 feet, wow they exagerated the size of a snake......I've NEVER heard of that before.Who was it that posted that since they said it was 12 feet it was probably actually 8 or 9 feet?? Wnder what else has been exagerated???? Search warrant my ass those deputies and FWC agents were scared to go in and get that snake....amazing.
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0.1.0 Burmese Python 12'- "Baby"
1.0.0 Albino Granite Burmese Python 6.5'-"Capone"
0.1.0 Albino Burmese Python 11'-"Lacy Underall"
1.0.0 Retic 8.5'-"McLovin"
1.0.0 Retic 13'- "Carl Spackler"
1.0.0 African Rock Python 9'-"Pauly Walnuts"
1.1.0 Ball Pythyons "Yoda" & "Abbey Sciuto"
1.0.0 BCI 7.5'-"Mr.Pink"
0.2.0 BCI 6'-"Scarlett O'Hara & Sloane Peterson"
1.1.0 Bearded Dragons-"Radar O'Reilly & Carol Anne"

I live in Florida myself so ever since this morning that's all that's been on the news.On a local channel the news anchor had said that the Python was 12 feet.Ok well...when the reporter came on to do the story HE said it was 8 feet long.It actually showed video of the snake I would say it was an 8 maybe 9 footer.Well there was 2 FWC officers holding this snake one man had his hand behind the head,and the other had it's midsection.I mean COME ON PEOPLE! These doggone news people can't even get the facts straight and it's SO FRUSTRATING! Then they had done an interview with a local "reptile expert" who was holding a Burm and said and I quote "Anyone who knows reptiles knows these are dangerous animals" I myself have a gut feeling that this man did something to this child.But now these people are going to turn around and say ohh it was just a vicious killer.I'm sorry this is so long I just had to vent I truly and disgusted! That poor baby. -Rachael