Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Some of these guys are already feeding well.....But, most are still dealing with me stuffing fuzzy mice down their throats! Haha.

A Black Back...

Axanthics...


Some "High Contrast"...

Can't wait to see these guys in a year or 2.

Cheers,
D.

As many people there are breeding BH's...I wonder if the prices will ever plummet like fancy Ball pythons did.

It's very likely they will come down. You can't compare balls to black heads when it comes to people breeding them. Even though the ball market has pretty much come to a halt, there are TONS of people still working with them. IMO what's going to drag the black headed pythons down in price is the fact that they are currently a high dollar animal and to many are being produced. Especially in this economy if someone wants to move an animal they will be comming off their listed price. If you think I'm wrong then just take a look at what happened to Angolan pythons.

Just as with everything else, if one wants the best of the best as far as color and pattern, they will still have to anti up!

What I would do to get my hands on a pair of red ones from Derek!
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John Light

On average...there is only about 10 clutches produced each year....if that.
And... Tom and I make up half of that number because of the sheer number of females we have.

There are 4 "major" BHP breeders that have been producing animals for many years.....that had nothing the last couple.
There are people who have a pair here and there but, the success rate with those people.....is very small...because of the inconsistent nature of the BHP reproductive cycle.
They are not the type of animal you have success with every year...like a Ball or Carpet...or Blood, or any other snake really.
Simply put...they aren't that easy.

This will keep the prices up and they will remain one of the most solid "investments" in the snake world... because of these facts.
In addition....nice animals will always command top dollar.
I've never sold a BHP for less than what I was asking for (I've even had guys offer more than what I was asking to get the best ones).....and, I have a list a mile long for some of my animals....if I wanted to part with them.
Yes, I'm sure others will drop their prices to move animals, in this economy, etc....but, They will still be solid for many years...because of their breeding inconsistency.

Cheers,
D.

I believe there are many more out there than we realize. I think Tom Crutchfield has a group, and there are others that are just sitting on sub-adults. Many people don't talk about what they breed. I think Womas are much easier to breed, and they have gone down significantly in value. I do think that BH's will never be cheap, but I also expect them to break down to under $1K in the near future. The economy doesn't help, that's for sure.

Daytona this year should be interesting. Bloods seem to have taken over as the "new" Ball pythons. Every year I go, it seems like that if you took Balls and Corn snakes out of the mix, Daytona would be much smaller And this year, there will be much more room in the convention center because of the expansion.

Yes Derek but you and Tom K. are O.C.D. about BH'S like I am about Jamaican Boas. You can never have enough....LOL

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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Haha Tom...I'm crazy about those Boas too.....just need you to come off a pair or 2! LoL.
And.... some Red Dominicans while you're at it.

Jaykis....I do realize how many there are out there. I personally know at least 60 keepers with BHPs in the states. That a big number for this species. Anytime someone post one for sale or just a picture to look at....I mail and talk to the people. And, can you imagine the amount of BHP people contact me?
I'm sure there are guys out there that I don't know about......but, I can tell you this....there are not many.
I even know the history of your animals Jaykis. Haha.
(And, Tom Crutchfield Doesn't work with them)

And, while there maybe a lot of pairs out there...doesn't mean the keepers will have luck breeding or hatching them.
In fact, I see it all the time..... Out of all the people I know with BHPs...only about 15% of them actually have repeated success with them.
And, by repeated....I don't mean they breed once...or for 2 or 3 seasons....and then they never breed again. This has happened to a lot of keepers I know.....including some of the "big" breeders from years ago.
This is what will keep them solid for many years.

Of course, you always have people who need to sell their animals because of this or that........But, it doesn't mean that the people who have them available consistantly... will follow suit.
"Cheap" BHP are very few and far between............and you always get what you pay for.

That said....the biggest production of BHPs was 10 -15 years ago when Lazik, Lewis, Robson, Price, Goergan and Retes was all producing them.....in very good numbers...... Double the amount of BHPs were going into the market then.
There was more BHPs produced during the early 90's....than now.
The problem was that most of the new people who got into them......didn't really know how to breed or hatch them.

Then there's me and Tom.... who keep 90% of what we produce. Because in the end....it's just fun and accomplishment....that's what it's about...regardless of price.

I'm not saying they won't come down over time....but, they aren't going to 500 or even 1000 a pair.... for a good long time....unless they're crap animals. Haha.
I'm saying...they are still a solid investment animal...more so than most other snakes. They are still the best investment, natural occurring snake in the hobby, next to the Boelens, Angolans...and Toms Boas that are going to take the hobby by storm.... once they can be sold in any numbers.

Cheers,
D.

"I even know the history of your animals Jaykis. Haha."

Well, I don't, lol

"(And, Tom Crutchfield Doesn't work with them)"

I was told by someone that both Crutch and I know that he did. My mistake.

Hey Tom, remember the late Tom Huff??? I seem to remember he was very heavy into the Epicrates back then.

Derek, will you be at Daytona?

Actually, my first BH was one I bought from The Shed for the huge sum of $600 back in the 70's. It was an adult male and eventually it ended up on breeding loan at the Staten Island Zoo....where it died. Never was notified of that I think Bill Summerville was curator then.

I'm one of the older guys......lol

I wouldn't expect the prices to plummet. But they will come down. If you consider the devaluation of the dollar, they've lost about 60% of their "value" from 10 years ago.

One thing to consider is that there are a limited number of cages out there. If the cages are full with something else, demand is decreased, supply is up, price comes down. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of boas and pythons being produced each year filling up cage space that BHP's aren't filling. Seriously now, how long do YOU leave a cage empty?

Just some thoughts.

Doug T

>>As many people there are breeding BH's...I wonder if the prices will ever plummet like fancy Ball pythons did.

Doug Taylor Reptiles

Womas have dropped quite a bit. Then again, the whole economy sucks.

I don't worry so much about people and their "want" for stuff....or a "full cage" issue.
Most of the BHP pairs I've sold.... have been to guys that had 1 too many pairs of Boas, Carpets, Bloods, etc....and were looking for something else.....a step up...if you will...as they were "bored" with the everyday stuff. (Or have been waiting their whole life until they could afford them).
BHPs are close to the "end of the line" for many keepers (mostly because of price)....And, I find that there are still plenty of keepers who will sell something to put BHPs in their collection...(as most of the guys I've sold BHPs too...waited most of their life to get them). There are still a lot of those guys out there.
In addition....there is always new people coming into the hobby.

I agree about supply vs demand...and judging from the amount of phone calls and e mails I get......there is still a big demand.

With these animals though...people who are going to buy....want "the right ones" (as I been told each time I sell a pair)
not necessarily the "cheapest ones".

I believe Womas will come back up over time as well. Most are selling their adults because of this perceived "tanking" of their market.
Hell I sold 09 Womas... for double what people are asking on Kingsnake this year....they haven't seemed to "tank" to me or my wallet. Haha.
Have they come down?....yes. Have they "tanked"?.....absolutely not.
Quality always sells........regardless of price.

Cheers,
D.

Derek I'm in total agreement with you. QUALITY always sells. Many people told me that it would be difficult to sell baby Diamonds for $1,000 each BUT I've turned down selling 3-4 pairs thus far and I've NEVER even advertised them. I'm trying to decide if I want to keep all 15 babies or not so I haven't sold any. If you have great quality they sell themselves but if you produce average animals your in the same league as most other people and then its hard to sell anything..Definitely if I wanted BH'S I would call you or Tom K...

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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

By the way I was one of the first, if not the first, to breed Womas in the late 1980's but then I was getting $15,000 a pair. In the middle 1990's I stopped breeding them and then they were still about $5,000 a pair for babies. Woma's are much easier to breed than BH'S and because of this the price has remained fairly steady for some time. Unless you're a pretty good Herpetoculturist you will not breed BH'S consistantly. One needs a deep understanding of temps and other factors to do it right. For that reason alone I doubt they'll drop under a $1,000 for many years to come...

These however are my passion...LOL...other than Gorgeous Ladies I should add...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com