Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all, I just got back from the Caribbean and of course the first thing I do is go check the eggs…
While away I had a clutch hatch from the Breeding of an Axanthic Male Poss Het Albino to a Het Albino Female. I only had 4 good eggs. Two hatched fine and look normal and the other two were fully developed but did not hatch. I cut them open and to my surprise one of them looks like a Pied Hognose with the head of an Anaconda. It is also one of the biggest hatchlings I have ever had. Do you think this is an Abnormality? Have any of you seen a Pied Hognose before? I would appreciate professional constructive comments…
Thanks,
Tony Exotic Snakes, LTD

www.exoticsnakes.com

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Tony (ExoticSnakes)
tcarrozzo@exoticsnakes.com

I would say it's a parodox. And the poss hets proved out.

I saved the pictures of when someone posted a baby western just like that some time ago, but I won't repost them because the pictures are not mine. You can PM me if you would like me to email them to you.

Anyway, I believe the last one actually hatched, but then died and the original thought was that it was also a pied. In reality, it is just an area where the bones did not form correctly leaving a kink in the animal and that strange white area of scales. It's a sad sight to see.
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Take care,

Alex Pepper

CBB '07 1.1 Aspidites ramsayi--Woma Pythons (Don Hamper/Rare Earth Stock)
CBB '08 1.1 Bothrochilus boa--Bismarck Ringed Pythons (Tom Keogan Line High Contrast)
CBB '07 1.0 Heterodon simus--High Red Southern Hognose Snake (Tom Pinson Line Red)
CBB '07 1.1 Pituophis catenifer sayi--Marathon, Texas Out-crossed Stillwater Hypomelanistic Bull Snakes
CBB '08 1.1 Pituophis melanoleucus lodingi--Black Pine Snakes (John Ginter Stock)
CBB '06 & '08 1.1 Eublepharis macularius--Blazing Blizzard & Reverse Stripe Tangerine Albino Leopard Geckos "Blaze" & "Angie"
CBB '02 0.1 Hemitheconyx caudicinctus--Stiped African Fat-tailed Gecko "Smeagol"
CBB '03 0.1 Canis domesticus--Cocker Spaniel "Cupcake"
CBB '99 0.1 Canis domesticus--Yellow Labrador Retriever "Freckles"

Happy Herping!

Have seen this pop up before. It always seems to be with kinked snakes. I don't know how the color is affected by the abnormal bone structure though. It certainly would not stop me from breeding that pair again and again to see if it is genetic. Maybe you will be first to hatch one!

How is the season going?
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Thank you,
Kevin Rhodes
http://www.freewebs.com/spreptile/hognose.htm

Hi Kevin,

It's a good but strange year... Many odd things happening like the snake in the picture. A friend of mine hatched out a snow, albino, and an axanthic from a pair of possible het Axanthics that I gave him a couple of years ago. Obviously they are double het. Talk about a roll of the dice... I have been trying to prove out the mother of those babies (poss het albino) for a few years now, I never thought that's how she would prove out. Now I am looking back at all my 2 & 3 year old holdbacks being possibly double het for snow. I already have definite double hets from last year. I have a feeling next year will probably be more wacky than this year.

How is your season going?

Tony
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Tony (ExoticSnakes)
tcarrozzo@exoticsnakes.com

Very interesting! My first guess would be abnormal since it did not survive. I would love to see what the rest of the snake looks like. Did you snap any pictures of it completely out of the egg? I remember someone posting a while back that pied hognose do exist but who knows. Like Kevin said I would keep breeding that pair to see what comes out in the future.

Good luck!
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Louie Chavez

Hi Louie,
The rest of the snake is normally looking, including the belly.
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Tony (ExoticSnakes)
tcarrozzo@exoticsnakes.com

either pied or paradox....either way...you need to breed the same parents again....and if the eggs were too wet, keep them better/dryer?.....wet eggs can have too much pressure in them and you can and will get more dead in eggs than normal....just a thought, I don't know how you had the eggs setup???...

good luck...try again with these.....and hope for more..

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09 odds factors ...
......118
......108/ 13-8-1DIE
...........................
1(1.normal,.1mojave,2.1 spider mojaves)
2(1.normal,1.pastel,spider?Huh,.1blast)1 dud 2 boobs died...
3(2pastelghost,3pastel,1normal....)
4(2.normal,3.4 pastel...)
5(1.pin,5normal...)
6(2normal,1pastel,1.pastel-ghost..)
7(6faded amel,2het(axanthic looking faded)....

I too have seen this before from previous posts/pictures. Due to the other pictures I have seen regarding this, it seems very likely that this is related to a spinal deformity more than being a heritable genetic trait such as piebaldism as the few that have had this were either stillborn or severely kinked in the exact spot where the white was. While it's remotely possible that this is a piebald type of heritable gene within western hognose, it might also stand to reason that there's a related kinking genetic fault that goes right along with it like some of the Caramel Balls express as currently evidenced which might account for these animals not surviving.
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Troy Rexroth
Rextiles

Hi Troy,
You may be right, I have had the same response from others...
He did appear to have a slight kink.
I will try the pair again next year and see what happens.

Thanks,

Tony
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Tony (ExoticSnakes)
tcarrozzo@exoticsnakes.com

Most breeders of indigo snakes feel that this kinks in the spine) is due to high incubation temps; of course this may be hard to prove. When we incubate indigo eggs, we keep the temps below 78*F, this does seem to prevent this from happening. I know a lot of hognose breeders who push the mid 80's in incubation temps. I would stick to 80 max with hognose, it's always worked for me.
As stated earlier, the coloration condition is probably related to the spinal condition.