Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK guys, I know this is getting old, but I think Joe requested another picture of the '00 female Limpia I got from Mileniusz. I took this today with my wife's crappy pink Fuji camera - Dad has mine on loan. Again, it was sold as an F1 and at the time (apart from being dark) it looked like a typical Limpia Canyon alterna to me. Lots of busy speckling/alternates. Anyway, it's probably the most striking alterna in my collection right now. It laid eggs for the first time this year - paired with a Limpia male from Dan V. I have no problem making nice generics with it, but I'm still not convinced it is related to the north county road snake Mileniusz collected. I appreciate you guys giving your opinions...

It's a nice snake, really nice, but pure Limpia? uh no.
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Not that my opinion matters but that is an nice generic Alterna.

I think Joe is correct.

Shame, the snake is gorgeous.

StevenX

Not that my opinion matters but that is an nice generic Alterna.

I think Joe is correct.

Shame, the snake is gorgeous.

StevenX

Steve,
Of course your opinion matters. We wouldn't have this discussion on a public forum if it didn't. I breed alterna for fun - because I'm fascinated by the animals and their habitat. If I have surplus babies I want you to have confidence in them. I expect no less from your surplus. A lot of people I talk to don't care or understand why we would breed locale specific snakes. I know it's not popular at a time when ball python morphs are all the rage. I do it for me - because it matters to me and I enjoy it. I like to think that the majority of people that offer locale specific alterna take matching snakes seriously. I've thrown two males from different locales together for combat before but the female is not present - there is no reason for her to be. Mistakes happen, and if I've learned anything it is that as tempting as exceptional or unusual offspring may be, in such cases you need to check and double check the lineage. If not, you may invest a decade of care into a snake and find yourself somewhat disappointed and embarrassed. Not to mention the fact that it puts other reputations and collections into question...

I have to agree with the fact that she is stunning, I really like her look. But I will also say that as long as there is a degree of uncertainty with her lineage it will likely mean many people backing out of working with her offspring.

So now that the cat is out of the bag.....

Something you might want to do if you can is scan in an old photo of her as a hatchling if you have one. I hear you on your logic that she looked like a typical busy davis animal when you got her 9 years ago, but so far nobody here has that image to decide from.

Lance
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Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

Here's the one Andrew posted earlier... although I'd like to see a better/larger scan. It's hard to appreciate a good Christmas X Limpia with a low resolution picture.

National Geographic material...

I saw the Melenuisz Limpia that was eating the sceloporus. I don't recall it being anything other than a fairly "typical" (if there is such a thing) Davis.

I don't know exactly which snakes Melenuisz got from Buzz on Breeding loan in 2000, but I do know (more or less) what Buzz had on hand in 1997-99 or so. He did have 2 really black snakes - one had virtually no orange, and the other had big orange diamonds (both are pictured in the Davis gallery). Neither snake has the "look" of the one you've posted above, either as an adult or as a hatchling.

The similarity in pattern elements of the dirt road Xmas male and your snake is (IMHO) pretty strong evidence that the Xmas male was the father of your snake. There are lots of ways that it could have happened, quite unintentionally. It only takes a few seconds for an amped up male to breed a receptive female, and tossing the male in the females cage "for just a second" while cleaning the male's cage would do it.

Troy

I've found a pic of my female as a sub-adult before she turned black. I'll scan it Monday and post it. Something to keep in mind about these snakes, at least the two I received is that they are (were) not blairs. They are (were) alterna morph, the interspace banding is just subdued by the darkening.

So here’s a question I have about black Xmas animals. Of all the black animals I’ve personally seen I could still see their subdued pattern, and none were not true blairs. But none were so black, like these, that you couldn’t see it in proper light. I collected a one-eyed black female in 95’ or 96’, quite a keeper. But she actually had triple alternates and this could be seen in normal lighting, but she would still be considered black. So has anyone produced or collected a black that was truly black? Pics lie. Another question is CB black Xmas animals. When do they turn black? While living in AZ years ago I bought a black baby from Tom Boyden (96’?), for a friend in CO, and it was dark as a hatchling and turned black within a month or so. Is this the norm? You’ll see when I post the pic of my female that she didn’t turn black for until she was about 3 years old. Just curious about the possible differences in black animals and how they mature.

RUSS