Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone

I picked it up yesterday. She is a young female, her shell
is the size of a small fist. She has attitude and I won't
tell you how she was being kept when I got there.. Anyway
she ate 4 small worms this morning but does not care so far
for turnip greens and mixed veggies or fruit.

Here is my big question...My brother is going to Arkansas
at the end of this week and I am thinking about sending it
along for release. This turtle was wild caught about 3 weeks
ago in Mo. about 2 hours from the Arkansas border. I know
that this is probably the thing to do but do you see any
problems with it. Will she be oK in totally different
surroundings? Also, I imagine the best place to release
it would be out in the boondocks, in a wooded area with bodies
of water nearby. He is going to visit my relatives and I can
call ahead for them to check some areas out.

What do ya think?
Linda

I wouldn't give up on her just because she wouldn't eat turnip greens. She may never eat turnip greens, but she might eat romaine lettuce. She may never eat mixed veggies, but she might eat tomatoes and strawberries. Turtles need time to adjust.
If she eats worms, take a few weeks and give her all the worms she wants and gradually try other things.
Get some reptile vitamins and a calcium to put on the worms(after she's eaten them plain for a few weeks).
I have some that are great eaters, but weren't for the first few months I had them. Sounds like the one you have is a juvenile, still vulnerable to predators and I'd be real hesitant to have someone "drop her off" in an area that you aren't absolutely sure has an active box turtle population (of that particular species).

This is not the best of ideas for many reasons.
Boxies are highly terratorial and placing it in an unknown area can cause her to search endlessly for 'known' territory.
Who knows what damage you can do by placing her into a foreign gene pool so far from her native area.
Then there is the possibility of disease introduction to the native population.
I'm sure there are other reasons but your best course of action is to find a breeder of this species and see if they would be interested. I'll bet you can find a good home for it.
Ed

If they are native to this area how can it hurt the others?
I just want to make sure I make the right decision for her.
Is it really fair to keep her in captivity either by myself
or a breeder?

Thanks

Because they are so territorial (very specific home range) there is the possibility that you can add some bad jeans into the population that have been naturally suppressed in its native population. This is also a possible scenario with disease.
Ed

As far as the fairness of keeping the animal goes, once it is picked up the majority of the biologists out there believe the animal is 'biologically dead'. That means that it can no longer contribute to the natural population. If you can release it EXACTLY where it was found I guess it would be ethicaly ok to do so but you might be breaking state laws. Many states have laws in effect that 1) prevent collecting and 2) prevent releasing once the animal is picked up.
Now, in captivity, if you can provide an environment to where the animal is well provided for I would think that was fair. Think about it... food, water and safety from harm... what more could it ask for?
Ed

Most studies sem to indicate that releasing reptiles in areas other than where they were found has very low success Many wander about looking for familiar territory and never settle. Plus there is the very real possibility that this particular turtle may be harboring a disease that the local arkansas turtles have not had exposure to. A similar scenario has caused widespread death among several populations of desert tortoises. In that case a specific pathogen has been identified and it it thought that box turtles do not harbor or transmit it but that does not mean that there aren't others.

It really is not in the best interests of the turtle OR the local ecology to re release the turtle other than exactly where it was found. It will probably just wander until it finds a road or a predator to end its life quickly.

The Desert Tortoise story seems to be taking on the proportions of an urban legend. Many scientists believe that a captive animal released into the population had nothing to do with the present decline in the DT population.
Ed

Although... I did read an article that mentioned finding some kind of african tick on dessert torts, and finding sulcattas released in the dessert with them. Apparently this kind of tick is common on imported african torts. The tick carries some kind of disease and they were worried about it.

In any case, an animal in captivity certainly has different (if not better or worse) disease vectors than a wild animal. It may be a rarity, but any keeper who's seen a population of animals of some kind wiped out by an introduced pathogen wouldn't want to take that chance.

See, that's the point. Don't you think that if there was evidence of a known population that was wiped out by an introduced pathogen it would have been highly publicized? There is a great deal of suspicion but no real proof that this has ever happened.
Ed

yep, probably just one of those better safe than sorry things. I may be remembering wrong, but I think the real scare with those particular ticks was a sickness not really for tortoises, but for mammals, and the agricultural impact. I should really save these things rather than rely on my swiss cheese brain.

What you might be thinking of is the African Tick that was found to be carrying what is called Heartwater disease. This tick was found on the African Spurred, Bells Hingeback and Leopard tortoises. That is why these were banned from shipping without a health certificate. It never made it into native populations but you have to wonder if it ever would have. These animals have been imported for better than 50 years now.
Here is a case of better safe than sorry that could have been handled differently but because of cost and the idea that we are only talking 'pets', it is easier to just ban them.
Ed

And I have had Desert Tortoises with RNS, and it is just about impossible to cure, if you can.

Bill G.

The problem with this is that it is a 'syndrom' which seems to imply that there are more than one suspected causes. Mycoplasma is usually indicated as a primary cause but there are some researchers who believe that Mycoplasma is a great deal more common than was originally believed and that stress seems to cause it to flare up. With that in mind those same researchers are implying that it is normally found in wild populations and was not introduced by the pet trade as originally thought.
You can see the political implications of this if this theory was published.
Ed

And I am very interested in the final outcome. Ramifications are very large indeed.

This will be a hot topic for many years to come because of the ethics involved.
Ed

I'm not as inclined to label this turtle as "biologically dead" nor do I think that it has to be placed EXACTLY where it was found, but the only appropriate place to release it would be fairly close to the area in which you found it.

There is some dispute about the various sizes of a turtle's range, or exactly how firm these instincts are in youth. This being said, a couple of miles would be way too much. If you could place the turtle out of harm's way say 500 yards, or a half mile from where you found it, I am willing to be optimistic and believe that the turtle will be fine and not harm any populations that were in such close proximity anyway.

Of course, the turtle could wander back from whence it came and get itself killed, but at least you will be giving it a realistic chance to adjust its range slightly. Any animal, if in familiar territory, will prefer to stay out of busy and scary areas and instead focus on the more peaceful zones.

This seems to me the best compromise. If you find the turtle dead on the road or in a parking lot, you will have tried your best. If it is able to thrive for at least awhile in its territory and perhaps help reproduce at least once, its contribution will be tenfold what it could ever accomplish in someone's backyard pen.

I think you missed one important thing in this story, she didn't collect the turtle, she got it from someone who put an ad in the paper.. so she doesn't know exactly where the turtle was caught..

NP

As many others have stated, releasing her in a location so far from her home turf would not be the best choice.

It may take a while for her to get used to different foods, so in that respect it sounds like your basically on the right track.

It does sound as though she's a youngster and they do tend to be alot more timid: this may sound stupid, but when I feed the little guys here, I make sure they have their backs to me or are partially under something, because they seem to dislike being watched. They can be (understandably) reluctant to eat out in the open.

That she's eating at all is something that you should consider a big plus.

Stephanie