Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I posted this hypo coming out of the egg a few weeks ago. Here he is a few weeks later. Looking pretty good I think.

Here he is now a few weeks later.

This Syspila clutch I'm really happy with the out come.
Marion co. MO

Closer

A few from that mass of red worms.

Here is the sire to the Marion co. clutch.

And the dame to the Marion co. clutch. -Dell

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TomsSnakes.com

Very nice. Coming from you Tom means a lot. Thanks.
-Dell

Dell,

Awesome clutch. You can't beat those, they are outstanding. Now the fun begins, huh?

Dave
DNS Reptiles

Dave, the hypos are fine, but I'm w/ you. The Mairon counties are outstanding I think. Thanks.

Your website is looking good btw. -Dell

Very, very cool Dell. Those top eggs look kinda rough. I would have never guessed something would come out of those!

Joe, your right, I had my doubts about those eggs too.
We still need to get you onto some Pales, right?

Cherry co. -Dell

VERY NICE POST-EXCEPTIONAL ANIMALS-THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!

Glad you liked it. Thanks for responding.
-Dell

Cherry co. L.t. multistata

Nice snakes(UGLY eggs!), but I dont see any of em as HYPO.

I thought someone would call this out. (Thanks Jeff)

First,only the first three photos from yesterday are of a hypo, and as you know there are many degrees of hypo-ness.
While this particular syspila is not as hypo looking as some Honduran hypos can look, I have other syspila hypos that are lacking less pigment then this little snot. Let's take a look.

This is a different line of hypo-syspila produced by Russ Mercado. I think the hypo I posted yesterday looks very similar to this line.

This female has a very light over all hypo-ness look to her, and is an 05 hatchling from the same dame(the gorilla) that produced the hypo in question.

Here are a pair from last year(2008)from the same dame (the gorilla). A het. and hypo.

And here is the het. for hypo. Gorilla dame.

Here is another 05 hypo. from the Gorilla.

Here he is w/ a normal syspila.

And yet another hypo. from another line.

This is the Russ Mercado hypo. that I posted first in this thread
near the same age as the hypo. in question. Make your own judgements.

I'm not sure if this photo essay helped out in determining if the syspila I posted is a hypo. or not, but when you have them in hand it becomes clear that they are hypo. or at least different enough from a normal to call it hypo.

For what it's worth here are a few hypo. Hondurans.

Not a hypo. Peace out -Dell

I've always found it interest how the syspila hypos manefest so completely different from temporalis hypos. From my limited exposure, in syspila the trait seems to effect pattern as well as color. I've not seen that in temporalis.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

Tony, I'm sure this has been debated before, and you've seen a lot more of these than I have, but I believe the "hypo" temporalis are really T amelanistic animals, do you agree?

Dave
DNS Reptiles

The only way you can tell is to do a skin test. To my knowledge nobody has done that with these. As I understand this one term (hypo) describes the phenotypic expression. T plus amelanism describes the metabolic process. If this is the case hypo would seem to be correct and t plus may or may not be depending on the outcome of a test. Not sure if this makes sense. Its late and I'm still trying to debug this damn computer.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

>>The only way you can tell is to do a skin test. To my knowledge nobody has done that with these.

Tony, has anyone done the necessary skin tests on ANY of the reputed lampropeltis "t" amels, and proven them by that method? I know people have expressed that belief about numerous odd kings and milks, but i've always been skeptical in the absence of tests, since without that it seems pure speculation. So have there been tests? And what's your take on the various allegations?

I think we can agree that the HYPO red milk gene is WAYYYYY different than any other gene found in Hondo milks--hypo or not. In the hypo reds that I have had and seen the white/gray changes to a tan color and the eyes are unmistakeable, which is alot different than the black turning gray. Comparison pics are misleading, the prettiest red looks like dirt when its about to shed. I dont see any HYPO indicators in that pic, I do see a real nice abarrant head pattern though! But also look at band depth and width, the hypos are usually different here too. Maybe it looks completely different in person(with my anerys I know this), but that one doesnt take away from that REAL NICE clutch you got there! If you need any help feeding those little buggers I have a feeling you wont have much trouble finding helpers.

All right Jeff I'll kick this around w/ you a little.

"I think we can agree that the HYPO red milk gene is WAYYYYY different than any other gene found in Hondo milks."
I would agree w/ that statement. We are in the salad days of hypo Syspila as far as the hobby is concerned.

"In the hypo reds that I have had and seen the white/gray turn to a tan color."
Naw, not all of them. I will agree that some hypos are a duller hypo, but there are some really nice white/cream colored syspila with bright red/orange saddles, and muted gray outline around the saddles. I posted some earlier.

Here is another one.

Here is an adult male.

These two examples don't have much grey around the saddles, and the saddles are not dull either. The white in between the saddles is not as white as a Pale milk can be, but it's not tan either.

'I dont see any HYPO indicators in that pic."
Really?
Ok, maybe it's not that obvious to see from the photo. We are talking about the same photo right?

Same syspila different photo. Let's check back w/ this little guy in a year or more, you could be right, but I don't think so. Worst case, he is a really nice het.

"REAL NICE clutch you got there!" Thanks, it was only a pair, one het, and one hypo/het.

"If you need any help feeding those little buggers I have a feeling you wont have much trouble finding helpers."

They are all ready feeding, as you can see from the first photo in this post.

I'll end on a few other hypos.
Head shot of the adult male from above.

Another male.

Small female from above. -Dell

Dell, its tough to put into words I think you will agree. I think the most obvious indicator of a hypo red is from the eyes to the nose....its alot like a splotched sinaloan on most of em. When they grow they lose that "transparency" on the nose, but to me its the crazy head pattern that makes the hypo....and its because of that head pattern(while abnormal for sure)you are thinking the same way. I hope it is a hypo, but then again its not one I would buy,lol. WOW, some of those other pics you have are SMOKIN. That female...WOW! I had a real nice pair, and Chris in FL got the female. Maybe he will post pics, she is the nicest hypo I've seen. Thanks, J

kids, don't throw those funky lookin' eggs out, look what you might get! Super nice Cherry heads!
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Todd Hughes

I like the Cherry heads on those Marion co. syspila too Todd.

I know you like those celaenops too Todd, here is an 06 Hwy 118 you might appreciate.

I just hatched out 118's from this year, and they all look like the celaenops from above.
Here is the sire to all of them.
-Dell

Thanks for the nice shots Dell, more stuff I need to work with, lol.
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Todd Hughes