Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well the good news is we got a beautiful, healthy, litter of 15 babies out of our Anery girl last night. The bad news is not one of them was Anery.....This was a HUGE shock to me. Dad is an '04 (supposed to be 100% het anery) from a Lucy Pastel X Church Anery litter, produced and purchased from someone I trustED.
WOW, I just don't know what else to say.....Glad the babies are healthy...

Kathy

MOM

DAD

So where did the parents come from?

place to name names....

plus I need to do some research from others from this litter and if they have been bred yet.

I will say, as far as I know, this guy sold off all his boas a year or 2 ago....

Kathy

I wouldn't count the male out on being het just yet. I have produced litters from hets and also from het to visual ad not got a visual of the morph from animals I know are hets. Sometimes the odds just don't go in your favor. I would try again with this pair, and then after having a year or two's production under your belt get in contact with the breeder/dealer you bought it from.

Congrats on the litter. 15 babies, albeit not visual anerythristics are better thatn none.
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Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

You are correct... could just be VERY bad odds..I don't think so ....but entirely possible.

I don't keep up with anery's, so perhaps you can rule the following out for me. Could it be a type 1 vs type 2 issue? Any slugs that could account for a screwy ratio?
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Jonathan Brady

Deviant Constrictors picturetrail

Both are type 1 anery, and only 1 slug in the litter.

I think I've seen that male before.

Would he be a JL Pastel??

Wow Kathy. I know where that male came from and I would be more than just SHOCKED if he wasn't a het. Have you ever tried to breed that female in the past? Could the babies be a result of sperm retention?

Last year I produced 24 babies in a litter from het albino x dh sunglow and produced only 1 sunglow and no albinos. According to "the rules" I should have had 6 white snakes. Not too far off from what your odds should have been.

Matt

This girl was bred last year to a hypo het for anery, with the resulting litter consisting of a great mix of ghosts, anerys, hypo hets and one normal looking het for anery. Odds as expected, even a little better than they should have been.

I know that some times the boa gods do not smile on us with the best odds..... but not even 1 anery in the bunch when technically there should be 50%.... something is not right. That or we used up our good luck last year. LOL

Maybe dad was the result of sperm retention....maybe grandpa was not really an anery, just a really dark normal that was bought and then bred thinking he was an anery. ?? We have a het for anery girl thats tail has gotten so dark as she has aged, you would swear she is the real deal and not just a het.

who knows what happened ????

I know I was totally shocked because I did trust where this guy came from. Had no reason not to.

I do have to find out if anybody has bred any of the littermates to this guy and had similar issues. or if grandma was with any other males ever.

"I do have to find out if anybody has bred any of the littermates to this guy and had similar issues."

I'm working on this as we speak guys. I had two animals from this litter and believe the person I sold the other one to produced with her this year. I'll let you know what I find out.

I never really liked aneries but she looks great. I like ghosts
and I aim to eventually get some moonglows, but not all aneries
look that nice from what I've seen.

Hi Kathy & Denny -

Odds do fool us sometimes ... this year I had a Het x Het breeding of T Argentines ... 13 live & 7 slugs ... only 1 T ... should have been 25% (3 visuals) ... I was kinda spooked until I found the single T .

If it were me (and I am pretty persistent ... my wife thinks stubborn), I would pick up another female Anery and breed your male to her next season. This would help you put the unknowns to rest.

Till Next Time ... Bill

Sorry to hear about the anery confusion/issue

Do you know what bloodline the female Anery is?

I know of two other incompatible Anery breedings. I believe Bill Kirby bred an Anery to a Ghost and got all non-anerys. I know another breeding that this occurred with but I don't know if that one is a secret or not so I can't say more about that.

What I do know is every Anery line I have worked with have proven compatible with each other. Here are those lines:

- The Church Bloodline / I have the Matriarch now.
- Ivory Anerythristics originating from my bloodline I started this one with an adult female anery I obtained from the Como Zoo in St Paul in about 1994.
- The Granite Anerythristic line. The aberrant female Anery I obtained from Brock. She was an import.
- One double het for Ghost that was supposed to have originated with Jeremy Stone that did produce anerys.
- A bloodline from Will Slough.

It could be a compatibility issue. It also could be that the killer Pastel that you showed was in fact the product of a retained sperm and not actually het for Anery. I have seen more than one person recklessly offer "hets" for sale only to later on admit that more than one male had been used after making that claim. The production and sale of hets is an exact science and there is zero space for guesswork.

I know John Lokken bred a Church Anery, that he purchased from me, to a killer Lucy Pastel, that he also purchased from me, and made some really killer Pastels het for Church Anery. Those animals were purchased as babies. What I do not know for certain is if that Lucy Pastel had ever been bred by anything else that may have left a few sperm behind. This is not in any way an accusation. I'm just detailing possible scenarios.

Do you know what bloodline the female Anery is?
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

I was wondering about that as I really haven't seen an Anery with the same look as my girl has. I have seen other kick butt Aneries( Like D and K's) but none quite the same "looks" as this girl. She gave me a very small litter of stillborns,slugs and two(1.1)perfect Jungles het Anery. Dad was my Hypo Jungle from EBN. I'm giving her this year off then i'll hopefully breed her son back to her so I can hopefully make some killer Anery Jungles that have her looks. Here's some pix for those who don't remember her.

That is one of the best Anerys on the planet! I have one that looks just like her except she has some speckling. Same kind of color and strange tail color that you normally only see on babies. Mine is a baby of the "Church" bloodline matriarch. Yours blows her away though. I wish she were mine!
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

Thanks Jeff!
I'm very GREATFUL to have gotten the pair of Jungles she gave me this season. I figured her to be a slugger so they were a nice suprise.

D and K,
still haven't heard back from Trey about his litter. Have you found anything else out?

what i'd expect a really nice adult Anery Jungle to look like, absolutely beautiful! Congrats on having such a nice animal!

Mark
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uncommonboa.com

Geez Jeff, ever since you guys got to chatting about that sperm retention issue... where you are expecting definite hets and then have a sperm or two pop up from the year before, I've been really rethinking all my breeding trials and plans! Luckily, every animal I have that has been bred twice was by the same male.. but I got to thinking, if I had any 'courtship' that didn't pan out this year... that I'd have to watch out for who I pair that female with next year. Scary deal when it comes to hets... Yikes! I am, however, glad that this has been under discussion... better to be aware of it.

In this incident, I'd imagine you are correct in the Daddy of this litter possibly being a retained sperm himself... sounds more likely than deception in this particular situation.
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.1 Sunglow (Rojo and Temperance (25% Suriname))
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
2.0 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle and Dumah)
1.0 Hypo het anery (Don Juan)
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.1 2007 Mostly striped boa (Andromeda)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.2 BPs ( Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
1.2 Blood python (Akaia, Thorn, Elliot)
1.1 Borneo Blood Pythons (Donovan and Deanna)
1.2 Children's Pythons (Spot, Freckle and Speckle)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)
1.0 Saharan Uromastyx

Linda Hedgpeth from a ghost to ghost breeding. Not sure exactly
what bloodline she had/has.

Anybody know who she got her founding stock from?

Very interesting to find out not all lines are compatable though.

Learn something new everyday.

Kathy

Kathy, I am very interested in seeing some pictures of those babies! My email is radboas@cox.net

Thanks,
Rick

Here is a picture of the litter that I took this a.m. while I was cleaning their tub.

These are the three tiny ones with a normal size littermate.

as you can see definitely some nice looking babies just no anerys.

I will have to go back over my notes but the sire of Linda ghost litter was a ghost from Bill Kirby. Bills ghost are from a Ronne anery if I am not mistaken. I am positive on the other half of the pairings.

Dan

Kathy, after reading your post I am very familiar with the litter you are referring to, and by the way your male is a spectacular looking animal. I have a female from the litter, she is a beautiful animal but I will be very disappointed if she is not a het anery. If I am lucky this coming season she will be paired an anery morph. It will be interesting to see what Ruben finds out about the one he sold. Here are a couple of pictures, the one on the rock in my back yard is her at 2 years old, and the other picture of her coiled up was taken a few weeks ago.