Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is USARK bitting the hand that feeds it?

I got an e-mail from USARK informing me that they're ok with banning Burm imports. I hope this isn't what I think it is. If you give up even one right its a slippery slope. Its obvious that PETA and the Humane Society aren't going to stop buying politicians. Why should we yeild anything unfought. If they want to take our rights to own and import pythons make them spend their coin. Don't just give up any rights! If your giving your money to institutions that suggest otherwise, you might want to reconsider.

...and the people that our going out to "hunt" the Berms in South Florida are just adding fuel to the fire. I live in Florida and our ecosystem has problems. Giant snakes are very low on the list of invasive specie. The feral cats here are outrageous. I went canoeing in the Peace river and everywhere you could see bottom, you couldn't see bottom. There were Placo fish wall to wall. Florida has so many invasive species. ...Am I dreaming???
What about the hogs that root up the earth. Oh, that's right nobody keeps them for a pet.

Awh well soon the Federal governments gonna regulate howmany breaths we can take a minute and that'll fix everything. Then we'll be safe.

I understand your concern. We wrestled with this decision, but these are the facts... This bill unlike HR669 is not about Animal Rights. It is about money, big money. It is about an ambitious and powerful Senator who wants billions of dollars in Everglades Restoration money that has been withheld because it has historically been squandered with no real results. The Burmese Python in the glades is just a way to get there. This sensationalized issue is being promoted by a group of scientist who also want money... grant money. A high profile "scary" problem that they can study at taxpayers expense for years. USFWS is also interested in money, money to extend their power and purview. The Burmese Python and the tool "Invasive Species Threat" can open them up to billions of dollars increasing their power exponentially.

Now add to all of this a tragedy where a 2yr old child is killed; one week before a big Senate Hearing on Invasive Species. Do you see where this thing is going? This is the gift from God Nelson needed to get his bill attention and momentum. Did you watch there hearing?

Right now S373 would ban the import and interstate transport of the entire genus python. Because we have put so much pressure on Nelson he seems to be ready to back off of his original language. The part he will not back away from is the import of Burms. He is already invested in this position. The Senate and the media are in full sympathy... as is the majority of snake fearing public. This is not the broad based pet issue HR669 was. The consensus is that S373 is going to move in short order.... with or without amendment; probably attached to a large spending bill.

We are dedicated to limiting the damage. Would you rather it move as is? .... or with only the import of Burms? Keeping the captive trade in Burms intact and getting all the other pythons out completely?... or losing everything? There is no guarantee that we can stop S373 from banning all the pythons, but we think it is worth fighting for. Please help us fight.
-----
Andrew Wyatt
President USARK

USARK is unfortunately correct in this-we are going to lose the "big 5"-guaranteed. Do we want to lose balls and all others in the genus as well??
-----
Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I have to agree. Sometimes you have to compromise. If we stand to fight on every aspect, we would likely lose. I think banning the import of Burms is a small concession compared to what could likely pass. I also have faith that the language will provide for the movement of pet pythons from Canada and abroad.

We are not resigned to loosing big 5. We are fighting to limit this to the IMPORT of Burms ONLY. We are asking that the captive trade in Burms continue. If we are successful ALL other pythons will be completely removed from the bill and import and trade will continue.
-----
Andrew Wyatt
President USARK

I agree that USARK has the best interest of the hobby in mind and will fight for us.

Please join and make donations. They are organized and fighting the good fight for all of us.

Rick
-----
1.3 Albino Burmese Pythons
1.0 Green Burmese Python Het Albino
0.1 Granite Burmese Python Het Albino
1.0 Albino Boa Constrictor
0.1 Hypo Boa Constrictor
0.1 Het Albino Boa Constrictor
1.2 Purple Albino Retic
1.0 Tiger Retic Het Albino
0.1 Sunfire Retic Het Albino
A lot Ball Pythons
A lot of Corn Snakes
A lot of King & Milk Snakes
0.1 Savannah Monitor
Yes I have the space for these reptiles and yes I am a responsible keeper and breeder!

So your willing to make a deal with the devil? PETA and the National Humane Society will never stop. Prople trying to compromise is a sign of weakness when it comes to these types of issues. They will have all our rights before its over if we don't show strength, courage, and determination.

Brad,
What do you stand to lose if they just go after Burmese pythons? Do you breed/sell Burmese pythons?

Just curious.
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Well happy, I have bred burmese in the past-and I might again. but if we don't come to some kind of compromise, we're CERTAIN to lose all the pythons-maybe even all exotics. Sorry, but a lot of us are thinking about preserving this hobby for our grandchildren, not just immediate personal gain.
-----
Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

"Sorry, but a lot of us are thinking about preserving this hobby for our grandchildren, not just immediate personal gain."

Exactly! Burmese pythons are my passion, not the breeding/selling of them. If I was into breeding/selling for "just immediate personal gain" I'd breed more than just one pair. However, the extra income goes a long ways towards putting groceries on the table for my daughter & my son that shares the same passion I have.

Thanks for your honest answer, Brad. I just wanted it stated for others to see just how many current Burmese python breeders/sellers and fanciers agree with everyone else's willingness to sacrifice someone else. That's not a dig at you & I'm not trying to be sarcastic. We all, myself included, have trouble sometimes being able to fully place ourselves in others' shoes.

Is there not anything within your incubation room, shown below, that you would absolutely fight for?
gallery.pethobbyist.com/photo.php?id=381209

"...not just immediate personal gain"

Dang, Brad! That doesn't look like the average reptile keeper's room. Ha! Ha! Nice setup, by the way.

Relax. I don't want to argue with you or mean to disrespect you, I just asked for some background info. Even though I don't currently keep most of the other types of pythons I don't wish what I'm going through and what I'm about to go through on you or anyone else.

Catch ya later!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

No offense taken, it was a fair question. As stated above, I believe USARK is working to maintain our rights to keep, breed and transport giant snakes within our country, if that is possible. I hope it is.
-----
Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I stand to loose my rights. Which our Frederal goverment continues to take on a daily basis.

Andrew,
I'm having a hard time understanding your tactics on this. You call it a "fight" but the only shot that's been fired is by Nelson. It appears to me that as soon as Nelson fired off his shot you were knocking on his door seeking a compromise, not a "fight".

From where I stand, as a responsible Burmese python breeder/seller and keeper, it appears that you are sacrificing us Burmese python people. I realize that may sound a bit harsh to you and others but I can't help the way that I feel. I'm trying hard to be understanding and view things from other perspectives.

I mean you no personal disrespect and I'm not looking for a fight, but you've got to realize that some of us are passionate about what we keep, and Burmese pythons are my main captives. Fortunately they're not my only source of income but they are a major source of income for quite a few people. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that's not afraid to stand up & speak out, to speak their mind. Kudos to "Herpout" for starting this thread that I've been wrestling with starting for a week now.

You said in your "Florida - Help USARK Fight S373" letter - "I know many are furious about all the misinformation that has been put forward as if it were fact, but this is the time to get past that." I have to disagree with you. I believe this is the time to address the misinformation as it's the main driving force behind these latest legislative proposals. This is where the "fight" should be. This is what you should be attacking.

Do I think that you're willingly throwing us to the lions? No, I don't. I realize that as a representative of various keepers of various animals that you've got to look out for everyone in general, not just Burmese python keepers. However, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't actually fight for each & every individual group. If you're going to "fight," fight. If you're going to negotiate, negotiate. Don't call a negotiation a "fight" though.

It's not the burden of a ban on Burmese python imports that bothers me so. I'm not wild about it and it's very useless. It's governemnt intrusion that concerns me most. Obviously, some people don't think too much about having another law or other restrictions/regulations to deal with. It's rather ironic that just a month or so ago I saw a few people post that Florida's permit system seemed to be working well. Yeah, ask that 2-year old how well it works. All it's doing is costing the honest & responsible people more money.

If you can walk away from your negotiations with nothing more than a ban on Burmese python imports it will be nothing short of a miracle. I'm certain that there will be restrictions/regulations on interstate trade as well. Can you honestly tell me that nothing of the sort has been mentioned thus far?

Respectfully,
Michael Sanders
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Michael,

Thank you for saying this, I agree 100%. I absolutely appreciate the effort made by USARK, and I thank them for their efforts. Heck, I even joined a few months ago. And I understand everyone has different opinions on the best strategy. But as a group that ADVERTISES itself as a "science and education based advocacy" group, I think that USARK not only should strongly address the lies and misinformation, but is OBLIGATED to address them.

There's no real science behind what is going on here, and everyone familiar with reptiles knows it. Look at this video, it's ridiculous:

www.justnews.com/video/20090065/index.html

"No natural predators?" Are you kidding???? For God's sake, the USGS itself, in a web page hyping the catastrophic problem of the Burms in the Everglades, used a picture of an ALLIGATOR EATING A PYTHON:

http://gallery.usgs.gov/photos/166

Are any scientific organizations challenging this obvious BS??? If not, why not???

Thanks,
Ed

>>You said in your "Florida - Help USARK Fight S373" letter - "I know many are furious about all the misinformation that has been put forward as if it were fact, but this is the time to get past that." I have to disagree with you. I believe this is the time to address the misinformation as it's the main driving force behind these latest legislative proposals. This is where the "fight" should be. This is what you should be attacking.

this there are python that are all ready banned from import, Australia has ban export of any snakes. And look at all the JCP’s out there so you see if by not importing burms will make them happen then I say so be it. And if you look down this form you will see how many post saying why are so many people breeding burms. So we may have to give a little , but at least Senator Nelson is working with us and not just flat out saying this is how it’s going to be.
Tom (T-Man) Swihart

Don't be too optimistic. If you think that the only thing that will come out of this is a ban of importation of Burmese pythons into the USA, you're in for a rude awakening.

At best, there will be national resrtictions, regulations placed on interstate trade, if it's allowed at all. I also expect there to be costly permits, microchipping and other requirements that could easily double the cost of the averge Burm morph.

One could only wonder that if Ball pythons were taking over the everglades instead of Burms, and this issue was all about BPs, would there be such a feast at the table of thine enemies. Any bets?

HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

I'm not against the ban of imports. I walk into the local pet store and see babies for sale around 80 bucks and I know they are fresh of the boat from Vietnam. Myself I would rather see them at 150 or 200 going to local breeder. Buy USA!

But really I'm not to excited about the thought of not being able to send or get a a burm from another state without having to drive there and smuggle it back like a .... smuggler.

I like the way florida has the micro and cage req. but if its not enforced then its just a check in the mail for nothing.

I love keeping burms and I always want to have the right to continue to do so. If I have to squeeze out some extra cash to microchip them I will. If I have to let the Wildlife cops in once every few months I will.

Posted by: MikeSkipRocks at Sat Jul 18 23:20:24 2009 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by MikeSkipRocks ] Share

I'm not against the ban of imports. I walk into the local pet store and see babies for sale around 80 bucks and I know they are fresh of the boat from Vietnam. Myself I would rather see them at 150 or 200 going to local breeder. Buy USA!

But really I'm not to excited about the thought of not being able to send or get a a burm from another state without having to drive there and smuggle it back like a .... smuggler.

I like the way florida has the micro and cage req. but if its not enforced then its just a check in the mail for nothing.

I love keeping burms and I always want to have the right to continue to do so. If I have to squeeze out some extra cash to microchip them I will. If I have to let the Wildlife cops in once every few months I will.
-------------
Thats the actual problem. It was never enforced . State pet stores sold them with no record keeping. Not all ofcourse but plenty.
State certainly cant keep track of out of state buys but when people were caught carrying them around by the beach,etc and no permit. They werent fines nothing was done at all.

Thus it was just a law on the books which only law abiding people followed.
If you met some of the folks who kept/keep them without permits you would see that the $100 permit fee was enough to stop 90% of them from keeping their half starved pythons.
Which seem kept in a "secure" plastic bins or just as "secure" outside shed .

To this day there is still no extra fine for those who are caught keeping them without permits . The guy whose half starved python killed the 2 yr old child makes my point.

If BPs got 11-15' long, yeah...the reaction would be the same. If Burms topped out at 4-5', no one would complain. Size DOES matter, lol

If you think Bill Nelson is working with "US" your not seeing the picture. Bill Nelson is working for special interest with fat wallets. PETA and The National Humane Society. Nelson is their dog in this fight. USARK was supposed to be ours. We need to do more on our own in my opinion. Call or write your Senators and Representatives and find out where they stand. Let them know your views on this issue. I've seen this trend happen with Charities when they get big. I'm not saying USARK is on the take, but power does curupt.

directly responsible for the death of the little girl, do you think it will make the news? It's not the first time this has happened.

There will be two sentances on the back page of the local news paper.

Food for thought...Why would a burmese python have to strike multiple times just to constrict a two year old child and then decide it could not eat it? The multiple bites has me thrown off completely. I still think the boyfriend and or the mother did it and then tried to cover it up. They aggitated the snake into striking the child a few times and then in the morning he went into his pre rehearsed charade of a story. This is after accidentally or intentionally killing the child with one or both of their hands. Just a theoretical idea based on the multiple bites report. It has happened before in other cases. The c.o.d. was listed as asphixiation, "however it's spelled", but by what or whom?
-----
1.0 100% het albino columbian
0.1 pastel columbian
0.1 hypo columbian
0.1 guyana
0.1 surinam
0.2 jcp
1.0 irian jaya
1.1.1 normal balls
1.0 granite al burm
0.1 granite het al burm
0.1 albino burm
1.0 sunfire retic
0.2 tiger retics

This animal was a RETICULATED PYTHON!!!!

And no, the boyfriend's story does not add up.
-----
Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

We now return you to the original discussion topic - "USARK?"
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Where did you come up with the conclusion it was a retic?
I watched the news footage many times and it is clearly an albino burmese. Which would make sense, since albino burms are very common in the pet trade, while albino retics are not.
I Googled this and every link that came up said albino burmese python.
-----
1.0 Albino American alligator, "Smoke"
1.1 American alligator,"Al Bite Ya & Mollie"
1.1 Purple Albino Reticulated Pythons, "Gumbo & Abita"
0.1 Eastern Gaboon Viper, "Gabbie"

I don't know where you're getting that-every one I've heard from on the various forums has made a point to id it as a retic-and that is certainly what it looks like to me.
-----
Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I don't frequent a large number of herp forums, but I've never heard it ID'ed as a retic until now. How can anyone ID it properly without a close shot? Plus, FWC has been handling the snake, the vet, the permitted entity who has it now, plus countless people who have conducted interviews in the Central FL area. None of the them would have addressed the fact that it may have possibly been a retic? I find that odd...

Well the forums that you are participating in have it wrong. Maybe because the animal was underweight someone could guess that it is a retic. Maybe because retics are notoriously bad tempered and Burmese are not, someone could conclude that it was a retic.
I don't consider myself an expert in the behavior and indentification of pythons. But I do know, without any shadow of doubt, the snake that alledgedly killed the child was a Burmese python.
-----
1.0 Albino American alligator, "Smoke"
1.1 American alligator,"Al Bite Ya & Mollie"
1.1 Purple Albino Reticulated Pythons, "Gumbo & Abita"
0.1 Eastern Gaboon Viper, "Gabbie"

If that was a burm-it was seriously underweight! This whole thing just does not add up-for such a small snake to attack a child of that age with the intent to eat it?
-----
Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Yeah I totally agree! Unfortunately cause of death is being accepted as the snake. I don't think anyone is going to look at the possibility being anything other than that.
-----
1.0 Albino American alligator, "Smoke"
1.1 American alligator,"Al Bite Ya & Mollie"
1.1 Purple Albino Reticulated Pythons, "Gumbo & Abita"
0.1 Eastern Gaboon Viper, "Gabbie"

I don't want to detract from the thread...but it was a seriously underfed, very neglected, and poorly kept Burm. That has always been my impression.

It was a sad and strange story.

The American/English media isnt bad compared to Hispanic media/"news" which I also watch.

However what isnt better than the tabloid trash "chupacabra" Hispanic media.

You would think pythons are attacking people on a daily basis . Traveling through canals and stalking humans . We are all on borrowed time.

Than again this is same media which said couple years back that walking catfish were wiping out poultry farms and attacking pets lol.

It's also odd, that instead of looking for the snake immediiately, he ran to the kid's room first. I also belieeve the guy has a record of "things".

Even kids don't smell like python food to a python. Dirty diapers, yes

Heck, I can't even get my darn Burm to eat this guinea pig. He's turned into a "strictly rabbits" kind of guy. Unfortunately, he's using it as a pillow which presents a challenge in getting it out, lol.

This bill unlike HR669 is not about Animal Rights. It is about money, big money. It is about an ambitious and powerful Senator who wants billions of dollars in Everglades Restoration money that has been withheld because it has historically been squandered with no real results. The Burmese Python in the glades is just a way to get there. This sensationalized issue is being promoted by a group of scientist who also want money... grant money. A high profile "scary" problem that they can study at taxpayers expense for years. USFWS is also interested in money, money to extend their power and purview. The Burmese Python and the tool "Invasive Species Threat" can open them up to billions of dollars increasing their power exponentially.

Now add to all of this a tragedy where a 2yr old child is killed; one week before a big Senate Hearing on Invasive Species. Do you see where this thing is going? This is the gift from God Nelson needed to get his bill attention and momentum. Did you watch there hearing?

Right now S373 would ban the import and interstate transport of the entire genus python. Because we have put so much pressure on Nelson he seems to be ready to back off of his original language. The part he will not back away from is the import of Burms. He is already invested in this position. The Senate and the media are in full sympathy... as is the majority of snake fearing public. This is not the broad based pet issue HR669 was. The consensus is that S373 is going to move in short order.... with or without amendment; probably attached to a large spending bill.

We are dedicated to limiting the damage. Would you rather it move as is? .... or with only the import of Burms? Keeping the captive trade in Burms intact and getting all the other pythons out completely?... or losing everything? There is no guarantee that we can stop S373 from banning all the pythons, but we think it is worth fighting for. Please help us fight.
-----
Andrew Wyatt
President USARK

"We are dedicated to limiting the damage... ... Keeping the captive trade in Burms intact..."

Webster's Dictionary defines "intact" as -
1: untouched especially by anything that harms or diminishes : entire, uninjured
2: of a living body or its parts : having no relevant component removed or destroyed: a: physically virginal b: not castrated
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intact

This is my main concern. You say that you're "dedicated to limiting the damage." I ask that you be dedicated in "fighting" to keeping the trade in Burmese pythons "intact," preserving it just as it is today. Please fight any/all future trade requirements/regulations.

Caging guidelines/requirements, on their own, aren't an issue. Being susceptible to unannounced visits by animal control, Humane Society, State wildlife officers, police departments, etc, is a huge issue. We don't need their big foot in the door of our homes, lives, hobby.

I am not a member of USARK or PIJAC. However, that doesn't mean that I haven't been fighting, doing my part, in these battles. I've been reluctant to join USARK mainly due to the NC legislation that you crafted, and the following statement from USARK's FL Python Press Release:

"USARK works with states across the nation to implement strong safeguards...

Its goal is to facilitate cooperation between government agencies, the scientific community, and the private sector in order to produce policy proposals..."

To your credit, I do believe that you have good intentions; that you are trying to preserve the hobby by crafting legislation that allows our hobby to continue. However, I personally feel there are enough frivolous, silly, uselss laws on the books that only make things harder for the honest & responsible people - doing nothing to prevent the few incidents & people that make the headlines. My point is - we do not need any more "Big Brother" (government) hogwash.

We need to "fight" these things with real, factual information for the lawmakers & general public. As long as the misinformation goes unchallenged, corrected, we will continuously find ourselves at the negotiation table sacrificing our rights due to falsehoods & media hype.

You're at the National level now. You've got a chance to take center stage.

Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice! "It's showtime!!!"

I am one of many holdouts of potential USARK supporters. Convince me. What happens with this legislation will be indicative of things to come. I see a pattern that I'm uncomfortable with. Will we allow our rights to be peeled away one species at a time? Who or what will be next?

Respectfully,
Michael Sanders
(HH)
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

I will say one thing here regarding those that are "waiting" to join USARK. Many appear to "waiting" to see big things first. Big things take money. Without the financial support of the herp community no real changes can be made, no bills can be challenged, essentially no herp keeper is safe. USARK is still in its infancy but look at what has been achieved by the organization. With financial support a difference can be made.

Warren
-----
Dr Warren Booth / Director USARK
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology

Dr. Booth,
I see your point, and in a sense I agree with you. Thank you for that perspective. I will consider making a donation without actually affiliating myself with USARK at the moment by becoming a member.

I probably wasn't very clear about why I'm holding out. It's because of my difference of opinion on creating laws as a preventive measure, which, based on the pattern of past actions, is USARK's philosophy.

"USARK is still in its infancy but look at what has been achieved by the organization."

To make sure that USARK gets a fair shake in this discussion, would you be so kind as to list these achievements so others can form their own decisions?

Have a great day!
Michael Sanders
(HH)
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

We have a choice of either having someone else making a decision for us, or making one ourselves. If we don't agree to a slight change (no imports of Burms...and frankly, as many of them are CB in this country, I'm amazed there's a need for the import), then we simply go the way of the dinosaurs. If you don't bend, you break. Nelson won't bend much, but anything is better than the alternative.

Stand up for what you believe, sure.....but always remember to be able to sit down when you have to.

jaykis,
With all due respect, it appears that you're either not reading what I post or you're not comprehending it.

Here are some excerpts from some of my posts in this discussion:

"It's not the burden of a ban on Burmese python imports that bothers me so. I'm not wild about it and it's very useless."

"If you (Andrew Wyatt) can walk away from your negotiations with nothing more than a ban on Burmese python imports it will be nothing short of a miracle. I'm certain that there will be restrictions/regulations on interstate trade as well."

And I reiterate, to you - "Don't be too optimistic. If you think that the only thing that will come out of this is a ban of importation of Burmese pythons into the USA, you're in for a rude awakening."

Again, with all due respect, you've got to ask the right questions. Please notice how the following question that I asked in my first post has gone unanswered.

"Can you honestly tell me that nothing of the sort (restrictions/regulations on interstate trade) has been mentioned thus far?

I mean, seriously, think about it. Does it really make sense that Nelson would settle for just a ban on the importation of Burmese pythons?

All anyone has to do is put their self in Nelson's place and think about it. Anyone that thinks that's going to pacify him, please let me know so I can be sure not to sell you a Burmese python.

You don't know how bad I hope that I'm wrong, though.

Catch ya later!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

I just want to clarify that I am NOT against USARK, Andrew Wyatt, or anyone else from USARk, or PIJAC. I am not trying to make them look bad. That's not my intentions, at all. I'm merely expressing my thoughts, ideas, which I happen to know are shared by quite a few.

Discussions such as these can be very beneficial to both sides of the fence. I'm willing to listen & learn. Unfortunately, this is a one-sided discussion thus far.

Later!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

What has USARK done thus far? I would also like to know. I have not given them any coin either. I did sign 25 letters to government officals for them (and us) at a reptile show in Tampa. I was thinking of donating, but I won't be now unless they change their stand on this import issue. I'll just continue to write letters to my ellected officals, voice my opinion, and try my best to educate the people in my life.

Why make a deal with the Devil? We need to fight this as hard as possible. The only thing getting millions is Nelson's campagin fund. So if they have all this money, what's next? I know there's established boas. we'll need to band Boas next to save the "environment". Come on people think for your selves. Stop following and become leaders.

The state of Florida, The National Humane Society and PETA are hurting as bad as everyone else. When thier donations dry up, Nelson will just move on to something greener. Untill that time, I think we should fight any attempt to take our rights!

If it's true....

Nelson is looking for some special status for the Everglades that would surely lead to more funding. He can't obtain that status because of the invasive Burms. Nelson is only concerned with the Burms affecting the status of the Everglades. I don't think Nelson really cares if we breed double purple Burms and sell them, he wants the cheap imports gone because that is what he sees in the Everglades.

If he was really concerned about invasive species, then we would see a bounty on boas, green iguanas, Niles, and the tegus in Polk county. Lord knows, the people in West Palm Beach are freaking out over the iguana population explosion! It's not about keeping reptiles or banning reptiles, it's about making an effort to appear to be helping the Everglades project.

While PETA and USHS were behind the HR669, this is a Nelson thing, not a PETA thing. PETA would never orchestrate a Burm hunt, the "humane" clubbing of snakes, or the capture of these animals. PETA is against the ownership of anything beyond a cat or dog.

"I don't think Nelson really cares if we breed double purple Burms..."

Shh......... Nobody's supposed to know what I've got.

Seriously, though. I hope you're right about him not caring, but I know what I'd do if I were him and that concerns me. Of course, what I say & do probably causes concern in a lot of people. Sometimes, even myself.

Later!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

I'm probably already submissive because I've had to cave to the FL permitting system. I'm already accustomed to paying $100 annually for the privilege of having wildlife officers enter my home. Now I have to pay $140 annually for my alligator. He's already been inspected, but since the permit is upgraded, maybe they'll re-inspect.

"Until that time, I think we should fight any attempt to take our rights!"

Umm.....from the other point of view, what law legally gives us the "right" to own a 14' constictor? A gun, yes....but not a snake.

To paraphrase.."When pythons are outlawed, only outlaws will own pythons."

"constictor"?

RRRRRR.....me best pirate talk has been forgotten

Anyone remember Carlos Mencina's skit on Butt Pirates???? Now THAT was funny.

OK, The Everglades have a World Heritage Status

"Perceived benefits of World Heritage listing include:
· increased recognition by different levels of government and the private sector of the
international importance of the property,
· ability to leverage greater public and private investment in the sites,
· increased attention and concern by the public and by non-governmental organizations to
management of the site,
· indirect protection of outstanding values from degradation or loss, though World Heritage
status confers no additional direct protections under US law."

Obviously this leads to tourism $$$ (always a biggie here in FL because it keeps our resident taxes lower than they could be) an additional funding that Nelson is looking to gain. He's looking to get a $1.4 billion restoration fund passed in Congress. He will do whatever it takes to get those darn snakes outta there and I don't think he really cares about the pet trade...as long as it doesn't interfere with his pet project!

Hmmm..... Free range Burms could be mighty tasty. Maybe if they could show a profit, Nelson might not care. PETA might not even object.

Naw...they'd still object.

Southern fried Burms, collected fresh from the glades. Gets rid of the problem, and can be sold at pricy restaurants. Fill your belly and help the environment. Win/win situation.

I'm only half kidding.

Too bad the invasives are not in South Louisiana. The Cajuns down there would hunted them all down and come up with some fancy recipe!
-----
1.0 Albino American alligator, "Smoke"
1.1 American alligator,"Al Bite Ya & Mollie"
1.1 Purple Albino Reticulated Pythons, "Gumbo & Abita"
0.1 Eastern Gaboon Viper, "Gabbie"