Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is long so thanks in advance for reading it!

I got my first retic from this guy (first mistake lol)... She is 11 months old and a little over 6ft. I got her home and got excited so the next day decided to handle her, take her outside (second mistake). She was stressed, cold, and hungry. I failed to respect my snake and do things properly so she bit me... in the face from my top lip to my chin, that was attractive! It healed up nicely, no scars... Reflexively I threw her in the grass in the yard (third mistake). I trapped her in a rubbermaid tub to get her back in the house but I am afraid that I taught her if she bites me I will let her go. This is my first bite, ever, after years of keeping snakes.

That was Monday, July 13th. I left her alone until Friday when I took her to the pet store (I let her crawl into the rubbermaid tub on her own) where I buy rats because I wanted to make sure I got the correct size. The guy at the store without letting me know what he was going to do, grabbed her by her head (I told him that she had bitten me) to to pick her up. Needless to say she was pissed (fourth mistake)! She wouldn't eat and when he placed a screen inbetween her head and the rat in order to get the rat out she snapped at him. I have changed her water and turned her hide over when she flipped it without any aggression incident.

I said all that to say I am very nervous, one because of where she bit me. I mean I expected to get bit at some point in my life working with snakes, arm, leg, neck but not on the mouth! Two because of what the guy at the pet store did and three because she still has not eaten... I know the longer I go without handling her the worse this is going to get but I also do not want to stress her out anymore than she already is. I DO NOT want to get rid of her, I am in this for the long haul and hope that this is my first of many retics to come! Any suggestions!?!

First, please do not handle her by yourself. We do not need another accident and a 6 foot retic can do some damage.

Second, if you are nervous try to find someone who is not nervous to handle the snake a few times, especially getting it out of the cage. Then once it has been out a few times have the snake handed over to you (once you are not so nervous). Where gloves if it builds your confidence. The problem is the the retic will absolutely sense your nervousness and in turn respond in a defensive mode thinking he/she may be dropped or worse.

Third, if you can not get past this soon, you'll need to find someone to take this snake who can care for it properly and not be afraid. It is the right thing to do.
-----
1.3 Albino Burmese Pythons
1.0 Green Burmese Python Het Albino
0.1 Granite Burmese Python Het Albino
1.0 Albino Boa Constrictor
0.1 Hypo Boa Constrictor
0.1 Het Albino Boa Constrictor
1.2 Purple Albino Retic
1.0 Tiger Retic Het Albino
0.1 Sunfire Retic Het Albino
A lot Ball Pythons
A lot of Corn Snakes
A lot of King & Milk Snakes
0.1 Savannah Monitor
Yes I have the space for these reptiles and yes I am a responsible keeper and breeder!

Thank you for your advice. I actually met a friend of a friend who has been keeping retics for 25 years. I was helping her move and he asked what happened to my chin... He is going to help me out and if we cannot straighten this out then he said he will take her or one of the guys he raises snakes with so I feel better having someone around who can help me get this back on track.

make sure her set up is proper (temps, humidity, hides, etc). what type of enclosure is she in? what are her cage set-ups now? how was she kept from the person you got her from? the questions are least of worries right now. whats important is that you have her in a PROPER enclosure. also, once she is in her proper enclosure set-up, do not handle her or offer food for 2 straight weeks. she has gone through tremendous and horrible stress. she needs to, for a lack of a better term, destressify. make sure she has hides, at least 2 ideally 3 (at least one on the cool side and on the basking side). later on down the road, you can potentially eliminate the hides (none of my retics have hides). but they have to feel secure in their enclosure and with you. it looks like you recognize the series of issues here with this snake, so i will leave it alone. but i cant stress this statement enough to new people in the retic world, DO NOT LET THEM SENSE YOUR FEAR AND IF THEY BITE DO NOT DROP THEM OR PUT THEM BACK. they will associate those two things eventually, that if they strike/bite the handler, they get away. and you will never be able to handle one of the best snakes in the world to have/handle. she is still young and small enough to tame down. patience, persistence and consistence are the keys to owning the snakes.
-----
retic is king of kings

1.0 Tiger Retic
1.0 Albino Tiger Retic
0.1 Striped Tiger Retic (het albino)
0.1 Salmon Boa
1.0 Albino Boa
0.1 False Water Cobra

She is in a six foot enclosure that was handmade by an enclosure builder. She is at 90 on the hot side and 83 on the cool side give or take a degree or two. She is on cypress bed, sorry to be a girl but it looks nice, it helps me hold the humidity between 50 and 60%. She has one hide and I will find her another one asap. I did find a guy who has been keeping retics for 25 years who is more than will to help me turn this around or take her if I can't so I already feel less nervous that someone will be around that can help me! Thank you so much for your advice and encouragement.

Two words to keep in mind when working with retics, confidence and respect. If either keeper of kept is insecure someone is going to get nailed. With this in mind you also need to respect a large snake, and never drop your guard. Example: my breeder females are easily handled, but...sometimes, after a good visit with the outside world, I put them back in their cages and...WHAM!!! it sounds like a baseball hit a window as soon as my back is turned. Always respect a big snake with a small brain and a huge appetite. Now, that being said, at six feet she'll (generally) scare you more than hurt you, especially if you haven't been bit much. Regain your composure, find somebody with more experience to help you out, and begin again. The previous posts had good advice. The guy at the pet shop is an idiot, keep your snake at home.
Best of luck,
josh

Thanks. I do recognize my errors and I have found someone to help that has been keeping retics for 25 years so I am already feeling better about the situation. I am confident that I can turn this around.

Find an experienced keeper to take her. I'm sorry, but it's the only right thing to do. Reticulated pythons as well as ALL pythons are in danger of becoming illegal to keep and breed. A keeper that purchases one on a fling, is clearly incapable of keeping it responsibly, and of all things leaves it on the grass in public while visibly being very afraid of it is the LAST THING this hobby needs. It's harsh, but it's the truth. Every keeper must be held to high standards, so that the public can come to understand that big snakes, when kept responsibly, are not dangerous. While you may have provided adequate care of your snakes in the past, you are simply not ready for the extra challenge that comes with one of the giants.

While I appreciate your protection of the art of keeping giants you have made a lot of assumptions. I did not purchase her on a fling... I did my research. I got prepared for her arrival. I know how big she will get, I know they have high feeding responses, etc. I read hundreds of posts on this forum before getting her and before I joined. Yes I threw her in the grass because she shocked me by biting me in the face. For my first bite that was a pretty horrible experience. I immediately regained my composure and before attending to myself, I ensured that she was back in her enclosure and secure. I chose a time of day that the two neighbors I have are no where to be found and the only kids on this cul de sac are mine and they were in Chicago with the exception of my 17 year old daughter who witnessed the entire event. I reached out to this forum not to be told to give her away but how to turn it around. I have no intention of giving up or endangering the hobby and if I find that I cannot handle it then I will certainly not be releasing her in my backyard like some of the other idiots that have endangered the hobby. I found a guy who has been keeping retics for 25 years and he is going to help me. Thanks for your concern but I am going to make this work and she will be fine... and if not then I will certainly be responsible and do the right thing...

As reticgirl stated above I appreciate your concern for the hobby and the art of keeping large snakes. However it is people like you "jayebfe" that make these forums so frustrating. If you took the time to read through her posts and the others that actually took the time to put together some constructive steps you would see she is doing what she can to rectify the situation. She is stepping back and building her knowledge to tackle this. Simply discouraging new handlers isnt going to help the hobby either. Educating new handlers will!

THANK YOU eschmit04! The handler market is not closed and therefore new handlers will always come in. New means inexperienced not stupid! If that had been the only post that I read or recieved then were would I be... No suggestions, no information... That is the danger to the "hobby". I respect what you had to say and I am completely aware that if this situation is beyond me then I will find an experienced handler to take her but I am not a quitter. I don't give my kids away when they misbehave and I feel the same about my snakes!

No, the reason forums like this are frustrating are because of so many inexperienced keepers doing incredibly irresponsible things. Eschmit, I applaud the incredible lengths you went to before purchasing your first retic. It was clear that you were going to be a responsible keeper just based upon the fact that you were so concerned about whether you were ready for one or not. I know, it's a catch-22, but you put the necessary thought, research, and energy into that purchase.

But a woman that thinks it's ok to take a retic out in public (I don't care if it was empty!) immediately after she receives it, has to take the snake to the pet store to make sure it's getting the right sized meals, and has never been bitten before is clearly not experienced enough to own a large snake.

I personally kept boids for 10 years before finally buying a burm or a retic. I have been bitten too many times to count. I can read my snakes' behaviors and am able to realize when they are going to strike. I know the devastating force that comes from a retic strike when it is hungry, and I know it isn't a novelty to parade around.

I am sorry if what I say is harsh, but I feel it is necessary. I know I'm not going to convince reticgirl to get rid of her snake, but if one prospective retic owner reads this and understands the graveness and seriousness of owning a retic, then I will have done a little bit to help the hobby.

I LOVE pythons. In addition to a nice collection of ball pythons, I have a burmese python and a retic. They are a joy to keep as long as you can provide the necessary space, food, and care. I know there are a number of keepers that went straight for the big snakes and have never looked back, but for the most of us, it takes baby steps to get to that point. My very first python was a spotted python. I remember when I first got bitten by him, it was a struggle to put my hand back in his enclosure. I can only imagine how that fear would have been magnified if it were a six-foot reticulated python. I can't say that I enjoy being bitten, but I'm definitely not scared of it.

I have invested a lot of money and effort into my collection, and I'm going to be sorely remiss if I have to lose my right to breed reptiles because of too many irresponsible and unprepared keepers.

I am not saying that retics are bad, are dangerous or an inappropriate pets. I am saying that there are inappropriate retic owners out there, and they unfortunately give retics a bad name.

I want to reiterate that large boids make magnificent pets. I can pull my burm out of her cage, and sit on the couch with her in my arms all day if I want. She's the closest thing to a cold-blooded puppy dog I've ever seen. I don't want to discourage ANYONE from buying a large snake. It is your right to own one just as it's my right. I am saying that one should research their purchase extensively before getting one. While that includes analyzing the feeding and housing requirements and their (sometimes) enormous cost, it also means having hands-on experience with them. In most cases it's probably better to start with smaller species (boas, carpets, balls) before making that leap to one of the giants. In the best case scenario, a prospective owner would have the opportunity to hold, feed, and care for a large snake to understand awesome nature of these animals.

If it were two years ago, I probably would have just read this thread and moved on without posting. But we are in an extremely precarious situation in regards to python ownership in America. We are embroiled in a battle in which much of the government wants to keep us from keeping our beloved pets. I don't know if a year from now, I'll be able to breed my snakes. I don't know if I'll be able to afford keeping my collection without being able to breed and sell offspring. If the snake-hating public gets their way, my only recourse will be to euthanizing my snakes since under past and current bills, there would be no selling or trading of pythons. We, as reptile keepers, have to stand up as a positive image for our hobby. Everything we do must be considered under the watchful eye of those that want our animals wrenched from our hands.

Imagine if someone saw the OP getting bitten on the face by a 6-foot retic. Imagine if someone saw her scrambling to catch the snake with a rubbermaid tub, clearly too afraid to touch it with her own hands. Imagine if the snake got loose and wasn't caught. Imagine if the loose snake managed to kill another 2-year old.

These are dire times for our hobby, and it's going to take a joint effort of all reptile keepers in order to keep our hobby legal. That includes educating the public, fighting current legislation, joining USARK (do it!), and being responsible reptile owners.

Just because I did not do my research on this forum doesn't mean I didn't do any... I talked to keepers at shows, purchased every book I could find. I keep a separate notebook on everything I own to track feeding, defecation, shedding, behaviors, weight etc. I volunteered in a pet store for 6 months feeding, handling and cleaning cages for a 17 ft Burmese and a 13 ft retic not to mention helping a friend with his 12ft Tiger. Not being bitten before is not from a lack of exposure but by grace.

I made a mistake but the hobby is not in danger because my retic bit me in the mouth! It is because people release them at the laundromat or in the Everglades! I got excited and I paid the price. I never said I was afraid to touch her I said I was nervous about handling her which to me are two different things. I picked her up and put her in the tub when she was in my yard. You have obviously decided that I am just some stupid woman who shouldn't have a retic. You be blessed.

I understand all the perspectives on this topic.

It seems as though the advice you are seeking should be things that are known ahead of time if you own a retic. On the other hand how can you know until you have been in the situation.

I understand the emotion and passion behind the concern of python ownership and specifically poor python ownership. I have many thousands of dollars invested in my collection and if suddenly I couldn't keep my snakes I would be at a HUGE financial loss. Aside from that I also LOVE my pythons and could not imagine living without them.

So I think it is possible to turn around the situation with your 6 foot snake as I mentioned in the first post. It will take some work and confidence building, but it is doable. On the other hand please make sure to do the right thing so that it does not impact the rest of us. That's all he's suggesting, but in a much stronger tone. I have a feeling you will do the right thing based on your posts.

Have you happened to look at any news posts outside of Kingsnake as it pertains to large pythons? If you search news sites and look at the kind of comments that the general public makes you may even gain a greater understanding of the fear we have of losing our animals. The general public HATES these large snakes and thinks that the are all a menice and should be killed of regardless of the cost, etc. That is very scarey to most of us.

Anyway, good luck with you retic and be careful.

I also think anyone who is on this post should be a member of USARK (please join ASAP).
-----
1.3 Albino Burmese Pythons
1.0 Green Burmese Python Het Albino
0.1 Granite Burmese Python Het Albino
1.0 Albino Boa Constrictor
0.1 Hypo Boa Constrictor
0.1 Het Albino Boa Constrictor
1.2 Purple Albino Retic
1.0 Tiger Retic Het Albino
0.1 Sunfire Retic Het Albino
A lot Ball Pythons
A lot of Corn Snakes
A lot of King & Milk Snakes
0.1 Savannah Monitor
Yes I have the space for these reptiles and yes I am a responsible keeper and breeder!

First, genetic studies show that burmese pythons in the everglades are most likely the product of animals that escaped during hurricane andrew, not pet owners letting their animals out.

Second, I don't think you're a stupid woman. I don't know anything about you other than what you have posted on this thread. I'm not shortsighted enough to make assumptions about your intelligence level based upon those alone.

Having said that, from what you have posted it is clear to me that you were unprepared for this snake. You have not made one mistake, or two mistakes, but multiple mistakes. All of which have the potential to harm the future of this hobby. To me, a prepared retic owner doesn't need to take their snake to a pet store to have an employee tell me what size of rodent to feed her. In my opinion, it is simply irresponsible to take a snake of any kind out in public. Many people have snake phobias, and it is their right to go out in public without encountering someone's pet python, just as it is our right to be able to keep them in the privacy of our homes. I understand that you claim that you're not afraid of the retic, but your description of what happened says otherwise. Why did you choose to purchase a year old female? Why not a hatchling? At this point, your ability to overcome your nervousness with the snake is going to be compounded by the fact that she will be growing at a truly impressive rate.

My posts aren't meant to condemn you or chastise you. They are meant to try to achieve what is best for you, for the retic, and for the hobby as a whole.

i am a member of usark, and damn proud of it. the whole point here is that this incident could have happened to anybody. granted, i know my retics and can get a good idea when they are gonna strike. however, for anybody to say they can all out predict their snake and know when they will strike/bite is not accurate. no matter how many generations of cbb an animal is, they are still predatory and instinctual animals. anybody in world, bob clark/mike wilbanks, jay vella, whoever, all have the same chance of taking their retic/burm out into the yard and getting tagged or coming real close (depending of course on speed of animals vs. speed of owner). granted, one should know not to do that with a brand new, stressed out snake. she has admitted that she did a couple things that were not in her or the snakes best interest. the snake is young and small, and can easily by handleable and tamed down some, with some persistence and confidence, as well as proper housing and food offerings. dont let anybody discourage you, use common sense and do whats in the best interest of the snake, as well as yourself, and all will be fine. if i got ripped apart for all the stupid things ive done to get tagged by my retics in the past, i wouldnt exist anymore, haha. fact of the matter is, you can only learn so much by talking, reading and watching, eventually you have to jump in an get true hands on experience. that is how we learn with anything
-----
retic is king of kings

1.0 Tiger Retic
1.0 Albino Tiger Retic
0.1 Striped Tiger Retic (het albino)
0.1 Salmon Boa
1.0 Albino Boa
0.1 False Water Cobra

I've said my piece and was going to step away from this thread, and still plan to do so, but now have one thing to add. You can honestly say that everything that was posted in the original post could happen to anyone? Yeah, someone can get tagged at anytime, but the reaction to said bite, the situation that brought about the bite, the pet store...I don't see any one of those things just happening to anyone. I never meant to imply that I can always prevent a bite with my snakes. I know which ones will strike, which ones won't, and I know when not to bug a snake any more than necessary.

Hopefully all those things will just be newbie mistakes that will be rectified in the future. I understand that the OP is going to keep her snake no matter what is posted on here, and that's her right. I'm hoping that the whole bite, rubbermaid, petstore, incidents are just a rough but very valuable lesson.

Reticgirl, I genuinely hope that your new retic becomes a calm, and tractable pet. Snakes will bite, but at some point you learn that a bite, while startling, is generally more of an annoyance than anything else. I wish you and the snake the best of luck.

Hey Jayefbe, thanks for your clarification on your position and remarks! You had some really good points. I Truly do appreciate EVERYONES effort on this forum to keep the large snake hobby alive.

Oh and I am not yet a member of USARK. How do I join?

Just go the the USARK web page and sign up! I pasted the link below.

http://www.usark.org/
-----
1.3 Albino Burmese Pythons
1.0 Green Burmese Python Het Albino
0.1 Granite Burmese Python Het Albino
1.0 Albino Boa Constrictor
0.1 Hypo Boa Constrictor
0.1 Het Albino Boa Constrictor
1.2 Purple Albino Retic
1.0 Tiger Retic Het Albino
0.1 Sunfire Retic Het Albino
A lot Ball Pythons
A lot of Corn Snakes
A lot of King & Milk Snakes
0.1 Savannah Monitor
Yes I have the space for these reptiles and yes I am a responsible keeper and breeder!

I'm joining as I type! Thanks ALL! For everything! I am committed to keeping this hobby alive!

I agree with Jay.... turn this snake over to an experienced keeper... Handling will only get more difficult as the snake gets larger.... If not be prepared to spend lots on high end giant caging
-----
Marc Duhon
Lafayette, Louisiana
SURINAMBOAS.COM
kaiyudsai@SURINAMBOAS.COM

Hi

Here is some info I posted on redtailboa.net for some one that needed help with there retic. I hope this can help you out too.

When I first got Tigger in 9 / 2005 she was not tame at all. It took me about 3 months to tame her. Here is how I worked with her to tame her down.

For the first week I used the snake hook to touch her a few times and I would just put my hand on her body and the hook holding her head. I did this for about 2 or 3 minutes a day. I also put my shirt I was wearing in her cage at night so she would get use to my scent. I did the shirt trick for about 3 1/2 weeks.

The next 2 1/2 weeks I would use the hook by her head and pet her on her body. She would jerk her body and throw my hand off but I would put it right back on her. I did this for about 15 minutes a day.

Then after the 2 1/2 weeks I still did the same thing but I would also pet her head. I did this for about 5 to 7 days.

Then I started to take her out of the cage for about 10 to 15 minutes every day. I would let her go just about any ware she wanted to but I would not put her down. I did this for about a week. I still would pet her in her cage just about every day.

The next week I started to let her crawl around on the floor. But I had to use the snake hook to pick her up as she would strike at me.

After about 1 or 2 weeks she was fine with me then I started letting my kids pet her when I had her out in the house.

The first time I took her outside (this was about 6 to 7 months after I got her) she when right back to wanting to strike at me so I had to use the hook with her.
After about 2 weeks she was fine outside with me and I even let my kids pet her too.

I still use the hook every time I open her cage to take her out. All I have to do is touch her head now and she knows it is not feeding time.

The only time I would not do anything with her was on feeding day and the day after. Tigger use to stays in feeding mode for about 1 to 2 days back then now only a few hours after she eaten.

Tigger has only bitten me one time in 2006 and it was just a little bump on my hand and it was to let me know she did not want to come out as she was deep in shed. The bite did not even bleed, just 2 or 3 little marks in my hand. When she is deep in shed I will not take her out of her cage but I can open it up and pet her. Tigger has become one of my tamest snakes I own, and she is not head shy at all. I believe this is because when I first got her I would pet her head allot. I don't even have to use a snake hook any more when I open her cage. She does have bad shed allot so after she starts to shed I put her in my bath tub and help pull all the old skin off of her. I think she does this on propose as it seems like she like it.

There are pictures of her on my website if you would like to see them. http://www.mccarthyboas.com/Tigger.html
If you have any question and want to talk to me just e-mail me your phone number and I will call you.

I always mess with Tigger's head at home when I have her out so she is use to people touching her head. I can even slap her on her side or even hold her head and give it a good shake and she don't care any more. I have done this for years with her. I even let my kids at home play with Tigger allot to help her get use to children. When ever a snake person is over at my home they can't believe how tame she is and the stuff she will put up with. After owning snakes for 33 years I feel I can read most snakes attitude pretty good at least the ones I own.

Update 7 / 2009
Tigger is probably the tamest snake I own now and I don't even need to use a hook on her any more to get her out of her cage.
She is now 15 feet long and 75 to 80 lbs.

Take care
Tom McCarthy
www.McCarthyBoas.com
mccarthyboas@comcast.net
-----
McCarthyBoas.com

Thank you for the great advice! Thanks to everyone that offered advice. I will keep you posted...

good luck and stick with it and remember, probably the most important thing you can do with any animal, do not let them sense your fear or let them win. i cant even tell you how many times ive been tagged and tagged/coiled. it goes with the territory. i also, have a good knowledge of what snakes will strike and what ones wont and and what times they will. however, i am not God, i make mistakes and put my guard down, as everybody else in the world. eventually when they realize you are not a threat and dont give in to them and just let them go when they do strike/bite. persistence and patience are keys in any animal, especially retic, owning/keeping. you will be fine.
-----
retic is king of kings

1.0 Tiger Retic
1.0 Albino Tiger Retic
0.1 Striped Tiger Retic (het albino)
0.1 Salmon Boa
1.0 Albino Boa
0.1 False Water Cobra