Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hey guys,

over the years iv had a couple burms, red blood pythons and a trillion ball pythons. I decided back in december to try out a baby retic.

when i got her she was about 4-6months old and shes female. for the first week i let her stay in her cage to get used to her new cage, then i began to start hook training her like i had done with my burms, and then have her out for 10-15 min handling sessions with gloves on. i would work with her twice a day until march when my son was born and havnt had much time since. even up to that time i didnt feel like i was gettin anywhere with her, i never felt comfortable with her temperment and especially now i tried pulling her out a few times last week and shes still very very jumpy. she is the most unpredictible reptile i have ever handled, and I never had this problem with any of my other snakes, not even my burms.

what should i do? is there hope for this snake? I really think im going to go back to burms, my 14 ft male just died a few months ago boy do i miss him. when he was a baby it took about 2 months to get him used to the handling, then never bit again.

If you are hesitant reticent when handling a snake they sense this and it makes them defensive and jumpy, too.
You should show no fear. That is why it is best to start with the babies. You must expect to get bitten every time you handle a snake like that.
If the snake is too large, or you're just not comfortable with it, I'd suggest you move on to what you feel comfortable with.
Of course there are a multitude of other reasons a snake like that might be grumpy. No security, no humidity, retained shed, mites, enteritis, dehydration, too hot, too bright, respiratory, Stomatitis.
As long as the snake's physiological and psychological husbandry needs are met they should calm down.
You might try leaving a t-shirt or some other clothing with your scent on it in with the snake.
That's all my ramble.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Hi there!
Since retics are a bit high strung, holding/handling them for 10 - 15 minutes at a time can equate to their feeling powerless, as a prey in the hands of a predator. I'd reduce the amount of time you hold it for the first several times - PLUS - reduce the frequency of handling. I persoanlly think twice a day is way too much. It probably feels insecure in it's cage, too, because of the fact that you intrude upon it so often.

You've got to find that delicate balance. You've got to earn their trust, not force them into anything.

Hang in there!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

>>Hi there!
>>Since retics are a bit high strung, holding/handling them for 10 - 15 minutes at a time can equate to their feeling powerless, as a prey in the hands of a predator. I'd reduce the amount of time you hold it for the first several times - PLUS - reduce the frequency of handling. I persoanlly think twice a day is way too much. It probably feels insecure in it's cage, too, because of the fact that you intrude upon it so often.
>>
>>You've got to find that delicate balance. You've got to earn their trust, not force them into anything.
>>
>>Hang in there!
>>HH
>>-----
>>Due to political correctness run amuck,
>>this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
>>Appalachian American
>>
>>
>>www.natures-signature.com

thanks for the responses guys! i appreciate it!

so i should handle her less, and not for as long? and when getting her out of the cage, i gently pet her with my snake hook pull her to the door then pick her up with gloves. is there a better way to do it? any other tips on getting her more manageable would be great, keep the responses coming!! i would love for her to become as docile as my old 14ft burm. he was a sweetheart, but was never this aggressive as a baby, he was a little nipy but nothing like this retic

"so i should handle her less, and not for as long? and when getting her out of the cage, i gently pet her with my snake hook pull her to the door then pick her up with gloves."

That's pretty much what I suggest. Also, don't forget what John said about - "If you are hesitant reticent when handling a snake they sense this and it makes them defensive and jumpy, too. You should show no fear."

Some snakes are a bit more defensive of their territory (and/or feel threatened while in their cage) than others. Depending upon a particular snake's personality & tendency to bite, I will sometimes use the hook to remove most of their body out of the cage (lifting small snakes out of the cage or lifting larger ones partially out of the cage) before grabbing them with my hands.

One other thing: Always try to end each handling session on a good note. If you've been handling it for 5 minutes and it's been acting good, behaving itself, put it back in its cage while its still behaving.

If you put it up right after a bite or strike, or when it's squirmin' its fanny off tryin' to get away from you, you're basically teaching it that if it acts up it will get its way.

"i would love for her to become as docile as my old 14ft burm. he was a sweetheart, but was never this aggressive as a baby, he was a little nipy but nothing like this retic"

Believe it or not, it's very possible for it to become as docile as your Burm was. However, keep in mind that even Burms have different personalities from one to another.

Patience, with persistence, without harassment, will eventually pay off.

Hang in there!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Depends on the size, but with my boas, I just reach in showing them the palm of my open hand, bringing it over their head and just pick them up. It is always easier to deal with snakes in containers/cages that open from above rather than those that open from the front, in my opinion.
Why I generally don't keep pythons is because they are less predictable, a little bit more willful and moody. Their moods can fluctuate more within individuals, as does the temperaments among individuals vary. Maybe, I'm just not good at reading them.
Avoid direct eye contact if possible. Eye contact intimidates snakes and gets them defensive. That's one good reason for the palm of the hand. It blocks the eye to eye contact. Most snakes are also less likely to strike out and bite at large surfaces they can't get a purchase on.
In the same vein of avoiding eye contact, you can throw a towel, snake bag, newspaper, or anything large enough to cover the snake to pick it up and get it out of it's cage. After all, getting it out, the initial contact is usually the most problematic. Once out, the snake can be manipulated in such a manner as to remove the cover.
Like I said, just go for it. If you are fiddling around in the cage prior to attempting to remove the snake, chances are good you will have aroused a negative response in the snake.
Look the other way and take your medicine, just like at the Dr's office when you were a kid getting a shot. Where's your commitment? Show us your stuff. You must be decisive, without being violent.
I could never understand how parrot people could stand to have those birds bite the Hell out of them, but they do. I'd much rather take the snake bite any day.
jsc

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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I have two yearling retics and plenty of Burmese hatchlings, sub adults & adults.

No offense to anyone, but I don't think covering the head of an animal that you are trying to win the confidence of is the right approach. It may very well work sometimes but I think it's counterproductive.

Eye contact usually isn't an issue because every snake I've dealt with are more into keeping their eyes on the moving, encroaching hand (or target) rather than the person's eyes. However, which could be what was meant, the first moment of encounter can involve eye contact. It is here that hesitation and/or non-deliberate actions can set things on the wrong course, causing the snake to become concerned.

You've got to find that balance between opening the cage and immediately snatching up the snake without any hesitation & opening the cage and moving steadily, but not slow, to pick up the snake without hesitating. This is the point that sets all other actions, reactions, in course.

Don't expect immediate results with that technique because odds are the snake will still strike/bite the first several times it's done.

At early age & size, the large python breeds can be dealt with without a hook. However, hooks come in handy for removing some nippy ones from their cage at the beginning of the taming process. I keep & have kept many different reptiles and I personally don't think you've been bitten until you've been tagged by a retic. With the exception of venomous, of course.

The main principle behind hooks with large python breeds is so we don't have to risk our limbs & lives reaching into a 14ft snake's cage. I usually begin hook training somewhere around 7 - 8ft long. They learn quick & easy.

Most snakes tend to not stirke/bite as much once out of their cage. There are many different ways of working with the larger breeds to get them out of their cage safely for handling. I've got a pair of 12 - 14ft Burms that I've conditioned to crawl out of the cage & to me. I can easily & worry-free pick them up once they're about halfway out of the cage. They actually crawl to me every time I open their cage and just stand there. Nearly all of my Burms actually crawl right to me when I open their cage. And no, it's not looking for food.

Come feeding time I don't leave the cage open long enough for them to crawl out. I open the cage, place F/T rats/rabbits inside & close it up.

Will these yearling retics I've got ever get to the same point? I think so. They no longer strike/bite when I open their cage or when I reach in to get them out. And I've not had the time to work with them nearly like I should. Basically, it's been a once a week session, if that.

Keep 'em fed right to help eliminate feeding responses and make sure that the only time you open the cage it isn't mostly for feeding.

Please keep us posted on your progress, regardless of how long it's been.

Best wishes!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

My experience with boas has led me to believe that they would rather not bite if they can get by with a good bluff. Something like a Bullsnake. Now, there will be people telling me Bullsnakes would rather bite than bluff. OK. You've got your opinion and I've got mine. Furthermore, boas will generally NOT bite the hand/arm of the person holding them, even if they are bowed up hissing and striking. Generally it is all air lunges and show.
Now, Pythons on the other hand, will deliberately bite the hand/arm that holds them in a willful, spiteful, premeditated manner; even if they are not displaying any attitude whatsoever. That is why I prefer Boas over Pythons, I guess. Like I said, I just can't read Pythons. I admit, that's my opinion, based in my personal deficiencies on the subject. And the simple fact that some varieties grow too large at times for one person to safely handle. Just my preference based on my experience.
OK. I admit most of my experience is with Boas. Don't use a snake hook. Never have. Don't have any Venomous or any snakes large enough to require a snake hook. In my opinion, any snake large enough to require two people to handle it would be one I'd use a snake hook on. Then again, I don't keep my snakes in all glass aquariums with screen tops and heat lamps from above and don't advocate doing so.
There are plenty of photos depicting my life experience with snakes and other things on my Photobucket page at: http://photobucket.com/jscrick/ Over thirty photo albums to the left of the page. Many are just Internet photo posting work files. You're welcome to look.
jsc

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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

John,
Please believe me when i say that I wasn't trying to discredit you, belittle your thoughts/suggestions or question your experience. I'm sorry if you took offense to anything I wrote because I honestly meant no offense.

Thus the beauty of forums - Various ideas can be offered, described and then considered by everyone reading so that they can come up with their own conclusions instead of blindly following anyone. I usually suggest that people not just take my word for things but do their own research and come to their own conclusions. There are so many different ways of doing so many different things and basically achieving the same outcome.

I didn't dawg you out about your comment on covering a snake's head, I simply stated "I don't think covering the head of an animal that you are trying to win the confidence of is the right approach. It may very well work sometimes but I think it's counterproductive." I didn't state my thoughts as facts and even mentioned "It may very well work sometimes..."

As far as reading, interpreting, an animal's behavior (actions,reactions) it's pretty much the same technique used across the board in the animal kingdom. Dogs, cats, horses, lizards, snakes, rats, etc... Yes, some species are harder than others but continuous efforts usually pay off. So don't sell yourself short.

In all my years of reptile and animal keeping & breeding, the Dumeril's boa that was given to me a few years ago was probably my biggest challenge - and that was largely due to me letting it's looks distract me & question myself. Once I got over that it was all down hill.

Getting a bit off topic, let me address your comment, "Then again, I don't keep my snakes in all glass aquariums with screen tops and heat lamps from above and don't advocate doing so.

Not meaning to be offensive, by any means, but in an effort to be realistic - just about everyone I know, including myself, started out this way. Very few people can afford commercial-built cages for their first herp. Very few people have the tools & ability to build their own cages when first getting into herps. We all know that the animal is most always, by far, the cheapest part of the investment.

I try to encourage those with tanks & screen tops to work on bettering their setup. We all know that such setups can be detrimental to the captive's health. An appropriate size aquarium can be modified fairly easily to provide the temperatures, humidity & heat source needed.

I build my own cages & racks. I also still have a few tanks with modified tops and overhead heat source that work flawlessly that I use from time to time. I've personally seen commercial cages that couldn't steadily maintain environmental factors half as good as some of my modified tanks.

Persoanlly, I'd prefer to see everyone make their own cages out of quality material. But this takes money to buy the tools & materials, time to build it, and needed space to build it within. Sometimes we have to make do with what we've got or what we can afford, though. As forum participants, it's up to us to try to encourage others to ensure that their captives' needs are being met the best way possible at the moment.

Modify that tank if you need to, but be putting back money to buy a commercial cage or to build your own ASAP.

[url]http://natures-signature.com/diy/55gal_top_sideview.jpg

i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/Natures-Signature/Construction/cage2_02.jpg

The light bulb in the 2nd cage was just for taking photos. I use two CHE's with guards for heat but want to switch to the radiant heat panels one of these days.

Ya;ll take care!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com