Reptile & Amphibian Forums

AHH Man!!! This is my first year going as was hoping to see their beautiful creations this year, but checking the vendor list i didnt see their names on it!!?? Why not guys?

Ralph has said that he was'nt doing the shows much anymore. Don't know about Kevin. Maybe we can get Graziani to join the list.Prety much see all his "new morphs" on here anyway.

Yea, it pretty much sucks.

Due the new restrictions on monitors and large constrictors many breeders and dealers do not want to deal with the Flroida regulations so they will skip the show instead. It was the same last year.

just curious to know if you are going to post those pics of your animals. really curious to see how that marker looks like.

Pitoon

LOL

I will when I have time. I am very busy right now.

if you are just screwing around I have better things to do, how about you search the forum, I have posted them before and so have others

i told you previously i wasn't joking with you. all i'm requesting are those pics from you?

i want to see what you see?

when you get a chance please post them, thanks!

Pitoon

why do you have to take things so personal or take offense to simple questions/replies?

just curious????

Pitoon

I think you had mentioned het pied combos with co-dominant mutations. I don't think I've seen pictures of those. Not sure if that is what anyone else is looking for but I already have plenty of just het pied indicator bellied possible hets to look at and am wondering about the combos, especially with co-dominant mutations that have clear bellies to start with. Also, can you see the ringer belly in an albino?

To answer the ringer question Randy I think you would be able to tell a ringer in an albino , I say this as ringers generally have that redish area around the patch and that orange/red color would for sure show up on an albinos sides or belly. Also I do think alot of people including myself feel that the belly on a Pastel Het Pied is pretty obvious to tell as that generally looks more like a Het Pied belly with marker sides moreso than just a regular Pastel belly, not sure about any of the other Het Pied crosses however .

Anthony McCain

Here are some comparison pics.

Pastel het pied:

Regular pastel:

Cinnamon het pied:

Regular cinnamon:

I'm not a 100% believer in het pied markers, the only way to be sure an animal will carry that gene is to have one of the parents be a visual piebald. I also have normal girls that have what look like textbook examples of the het pied marker, so it leads me to believe that the markers can show up interdependently of the pied gene. All that being said, if I was picking possible hets to raise up I would still have to look for markers.

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-Jeff
http://jefflumanreptiles.com

those pics that you posted of the pastel and cinny.....are they 100% het pied or are you just going of the famous marker?

Pitoon

They are 100% het for pied. I produced the cinnamon het pied myself breeding a pied male to a cinnamon female. The pastel het pied was produced in a pied male to pastel female breeding done by another breeder local to me.

Maybe I'll have myself a pewter pied one of these days
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-Jeff
http://jefflumanreptiles.com

on the clutch you produced how many had the marker? and how many didn't?

Pitoon

That was a clutch from last year. The female cinnamon was the only snake that I kept from that clutch, and I don't recall if the other clutchmates had markers or not.

I did just go look at four het pieds from the same clutch (visual pied male to het female breeding). Three out of the four have strong markers, the fourth doesn't really have them at all. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't think the markers can be used to determine het pieds with 100% accuracy, but if I was picking through possible hets I would look for those markers.
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-Jeff
http://jefflumanreptiles.com

I've heard 2nd hand reports that in big sample sizes that het pieds have the ringer belly 70-80% of the time.

Thanks for the pics! Looks like the normal het pied marker but maybe a little thinner.

And perfect timing, I had a snake come out today from a new morph female with one of the possible fathers being a very well markered possible het pied and the baby sure looks like the new morph with het pied. She didn't absorb the yolk fully yet so I'll see if she is ready for pictures tomorrow.

Yea,

I would like to see these pics too. I can't find anything in the search. Thanks.

Bill
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0.1 Het Albino
0.1 Spider Het Albino
1.0 Albino
0.1 Spinner
2.1 Super Pastel
0.1 Jungle Pastel
0.1 Het Pied
1.0 Pied 50 percent
0.1 Clown
1.1 Het Lavenders
1.1 Het Caramel Albino
0.3 Normal
1.1 Kids
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Chocolate Lab

Not enough money to be made....
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www.strictlyballs.ca

yep seems like the all mighty $ usually wins out.
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Vince Pramuk []__[]

NERD wasn't there last year either, and Ralph had said he wasn't coming back last year. I think Pete Kahl and the Sutherlands will be there tho (don't quote me on that).

I wrote about this last year...

I know that the cost is too great and the income of the show too small for some of the larger breeders to go to Daytona. However, I didn't think so many would back out tho due to all the proposed laws... you would think at times like this its the most important time to ban together for the famous Daytona and give a really impressive convention -- to show off how our hobby brings people together peacefully, and that our reptiles aren't so scary, and most of all, what we contribute to the economy. To have that positive media on our side... Its kind of disappointing really that some of them aren't showing, just for that fact.

I mean, yes: its definitely not worth the money for the big guys to go. I know this just as well as everyone else. The tables themselves are extremely expensive, plus the cost of shipping your reptiles (air or gas), plus the hotel... It's not as much of a vacation for them as it is for us, the consumers.

I just thought everyone would think to REALLY be down for going.... To make a stand... A presentation... in the face of adversity and laws passing against our community. I just feel as though Daytona would have been more important, for the principle, not for cash.
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

I also find it rather interesting that principle or not, these breeders have made themselves so "public" for lack of a better word and such an integral part of the community when the money was huge, and people were still spending tens of thousands on a single morph, but now that the prices have come down, these large breeders who were in this for the "love of reptiles since I was a child" have only proven that it was all only ever about the money and the "community" or "principle" was a very distant afterthought. You would think that these breeders, having made a gigantic amount of money OFF of these animals over the years, would take a thousandth of a percent of that profit and (maybe even taking a hit) to show they still give a crap about anything but the almighty dollar. So far, very few have stood up to be counted. Very disappointing and very eye-opening. That said, huge props go out to people like BHB and many like him for stepping up during the "rough times" and continuing to schlepp it out at shows even if they're not gonna make a million for a few days work. Kudos fellas.
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www.strictlyballs.ca

I couldn't agree more.
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

that some of the breeders got so big, with so many expenses, that the bad economy has them working hard to keep their heads above water? They may not be able to AFFORD to go to an expensive show just to show support. Several larger dealers / breeders (not just of BPs) have told me it can cost them $5k, or even way more, just to pay for travel, employee, and show expenses. AND it is a lot of stress on them, AND their animals. If they can't show a profit, or if they lose money, they may not be able to afford the luxury of taking time away from their business and stressing animals to show support.

I don't know any of those breeders well enough to say that this is the case. Just throwing out possibilities because I did have one particular breeder (not one of those mentioned) tell me that he is not coming for that very reason.

Sure Kathy, of course it's a possibility...
There could be a million hypotheticals.
All of this could just be a HUUUUUGE coincidence too...
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www.strictlyballs.ca

Tracy & David Barker went last year; they only had like a half of a table. They brought a handful of Bloods with them, and came to the show JUST to be there, just to talk to everyone, and to educate. That's true love for reptiles in my eyes. And I'll bet you they'll be there again this year too.

I have to agree with jttid below on this one, though I may not feel as hostile about it.
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

If $5000 dollars is keeping them from making the trip,that's a piss poor excuse.They make that off 1 snake,how many times a year?I hope it takes more than 5grand to keep them from coming.I am sure for some that it is very expensive. But for the rest,who made you what you are today? The little people did.The same ones that are now in love with this hobby.And the same ones that go to these conventions not only for deals and fun,but to meet the breeders that now think they don't need to show up because they are "Big Time".It's not all the economy's fault.Some of these guys have a HUGE EGO.They just don't want to go.But,after all,this is a free country.For now.