Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What's the differance between the two?
Who produced them first?
Where did the adults come from?
Are they true mex mex or hybrid?
I personally don't own them and favor the older look.
But none the less they are beautiful and I would like to know more about them.

-----
Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

Michelle,

I think the Speckled or Granite line of Mex Mex are mere results of line breeding for such thing...

If you pick the best splitbanded ones out of a clutch and continue to breed for that I bet you will eventually produce a Speckled type offspring...

I know some breeders used to line breed for long nuchal stripes with Mex Mex...What happened to those? Mark Kenderdine?

Most of this line started with a German fellow (who's name I forget). Now he did frequent the Trans-Pecos so many enthusiasts thought they may have some alterna in them....River Road or Black Gap...

They have been outcrossed so many times I don't think scale counts can determine if they are pure or not....Nor DNA....

They are a hobby snake for sure....As is the black phase. Lloyd Lemke began that line and it is awesome....
Do they have Christmas Mt. Alterna in them? I don't think so....
I think Mex Mex and Alterna are decendants from one species separated now, but still show the same variability..Same goes for Greeri, Ruthveni and Thayeri...All five subspecies are decendants from one single species long ago....
That is my two cents.....

Regards,
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

Thank you John,
I have been getting lots of questions about them and honestly I just don't know much about the granites.
-----
Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

I wonder why more people didn't respond to your thread?
I know Joe Forks, Don Shores and possibly Mark Kenderdine know a little something about their origin......

They are definitely on my wish list...along with some more Black phase Mex Mex.....Maybe even some High Reds I got located in California.....next year on those....
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

Joe's out west at the moment, he may reply when he gets back.
-----
Todd Hughes

>>Joe's out west at the moment, he may reply when he gets back.
>>-----
>>Todd Hughes

The internet is mobile now Joe.....lol

"The internet!!!!.....Is that thing still around?"
-Homer Simpson
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

he likes to get away, so would I!!!
-----
Todd Hughes

>>he likes to get away, so would I!!!
>>-----
>>Todd Hughes

AWAY!!!!!
You don't know how good you got it......At least you sleep in your own bed most of the time....

I got a new house in December of 2006 and have been in my house 6 months out of 32....It is still new to me....LOL

I know ALL about getting AWAY.....
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

well, I spend the majority of the time here, but lest you forget, I travel the entire coast for work, Brownsville to Port Arthur, lots of sleepless nights !!! In a minute I head to Benevidas, I will keep my eyes peeled for a Kingsville red!!!
-----
Todd Hughes

Yes keep your eyes peeled,
I have a trio of kingsville reds, never seen them in the wild, but they sure look good here.
They were one of first pit's I acquired.
-----
Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

o.k. enough with the funny stuff.LOL......

The speckled mex mex are pure mex mex all the way.They started in Texas in the late 80's by a couple brothers that live in Alpine.I will just call them the Galvans.They are low key quit,nice guys.
Anyway, Jerry Salmon hooked up a German fellow named Helmet Hanson over the pond.He worked with them for a few years and would bring babies back every couple years when he was out in west Texas collecting through the 90's.
Jerry also hooked up a couple people like Kim and Mark Bell and Brian Barzcheck (sp?)..I have seen some that both Brian and Mark have produced that are 100% speckled.They are awesome.

The granite name was put on them just a few years ago and fits better than speckled I think but you will see both for sure and they are all related.

L8r Shannon

lol...Thank you Shannon,
Now for the next question!
Are they visual or can you produce hets?
-----
Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

>>Are they visual or can you produce hets?

I've seen Don Shores breed a pair and get no "granite" looking offspring, but those babies produced some later on.

I think they are random at best.....Since it is a line bred thing IMHO....
Look at Danny's clutch below....Some are granite and some are normal, but even the normals have some awesome Red in them.....

Has anyone ever noticed that the males are generally better looking than the females concerning Mex Mex?
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

you are velcro michelle.

The granite or speckled is just a pattern phase.Its not a simple recessive gene like albanism etc....

You could have 2 "hets" per say but I just like to call them gene carriers instead.

Anyway, rest assure they are pure mex mex to the best of my knowledge.

L8r Shannon

p.s. you say you like the old school look.Well here are a couple for you.

a few classic ones that just hatched yesterday also.

Shannon,
that is pure eye candy! I can't beleive the red on that first one.
I love the crimson red, i know the hypo looking ones are cool. but that bright red is just awesome.
Do you ever produce the black ones?
I have a black female here but no male. that black animal you have pictured is very nice.
Also nice clutch of babies too!
-----
Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

>>o.k. enough with the funny stuff.LOL......
>>
>>The speckled mex mex are pure mex mex all the way.They started in Texas in the late 80's by a couple brothers that live in Alpine.I will just call them the Galvans.They are low key quit,nice guys.
>>Anyway, Jerry Salmon hooked up a German fellow named Helmet Hanson over the pond.He worked with them for a few years and would bring babies back every couple years when he was out in west Texas collecting through the 90's.
>>Jerry also hooked up a couple people like Kim and Mark Bell and Brian Barzcheck (sp?)..I have seen some that both Brian and Mark have produced that are 100% speckled.They are awesome.
>>
>>The granite name was put on them just a few years ago and fits better than speckled I think but you will see both for sure and they are all related.
>>
>>L8r Shannon
>>

Damn....I forgot all about the Galvans being involved with them....I must be getting old.

And Helmet Hanson is the German guy I heard about.

Thanks Shannon for your insight....
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

No problem Man. Its funny how they started over here but after being over the pond a few years they started leaking back to us from two or three sources and everybody thought they where a euro line.
Either way I really like them and mine just bombed out this year.

L8r

Shannon,
thank you so much for all the help. It is much appreciated.
that one you have pictured is beautiful.
-----
Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

Thanks, lok up about 3 or 4 posts and I have some other pics for you.
This young male below is from the granite line and he shows a little.

L8r

Nimrod, if you're gonna quote a music icon do it right! LOL. S'up brother.....

Funny, I purchased a pair of Potosis from Barczyk in '95 and when I received them I called him and asked why they looked "so weird". He was like, "ehhhh, they're something a lil' different that I thought you might like and they may take off one day". Best 80 bucks I ever spent, but I could barely give 'em away back then. Now look. LOL. Wish I'd never sold 'em, but then again I've said that about quite a few things I've had over the years.

I'm sweatin' those black phase Potosis as well.
-----
Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Sorry bout that DAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MR freaking Grammer already.Send me some pastrami and cheesecake there tuff guy.

Yeah, don't even get me started one what I used to have.LMAO.....

L8r

WOW! Very nice speckler, or granite, Shannon!
-----
Todd Hughes

>>o.k. enough with the funny stuff.LOL......
>>
>>The speckled mex mex are pure mex mex all the way.They started in Texas in the late 80's by a couple brothers that live in Alpine.I will just call them the Galvans.They are low key quit,nice guys.
>>Anyway, Jerry Salmon hooked up a German fellow named Helmet Hanson over the pond.He worked with them for a few years and would bring babies back every couple years when he was out in west Texas collecting through the 90's.
>>Jerry also hooked up a couple people like Kim and Mark Bell and Brian Barzcheck (sp?)..I have seen some that both Brian and Mark have produced that are 100% speckled.They are awesome.
>>
>>The granite name was put on them just a few years ago and fits better than speckled I think but you will see both for sure and they are all related.
>>
>>L8r Shannon
>>
-----
Herp Conservation Unlimited
Conservation through captive propagation
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

this probably doesn't help much, but i get the Bell's Reptile industries wholesale list everyweek, and they have had "Super Speckled" listed since i have been getting it. Also Mike K told me their line is the best he had seen
-----
POSITIVE THOUGHTS, POSITIVE RESULTS