Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I just saw some pics of a patternless northern and was wondering how legit it was? Is this a pure bloodline or has this been mixed with a southern or etc to produce these morphs? just curious because I didn't even know patternless northerns existed tell today.
-----
-Robert

"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an egg-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

1.0 Albino Argentina Horned "Pacman" Frog
0.1 Pyxie/African Bull frog
1.1 Albino and Snow Bullsnakes

no message
-----
-Robert

"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an egg-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

1.0 Albino Argentina Horned "Pacman" Frog
0.1 Pyxie/African Bull frog
1.1 Albino and Snow Bullsnakes

I believe I saw the pics of the animals you speak of. I know nothing about patternless northerns, but those snakes were not real attractive.........I'm being polite.

yep those were the one I was talking about. There were better pics on the website..but to each his own I guess. I have never seen them beofre, so I was wondering how legit the blood line was. If anyone with any info could shine some light on this, I would appreciate it.
-----
-Robert

"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an egg-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

1.0 Albino Argentina Horned "Pacman" Frog
0.1 Pyxie/African Bull frog
1.1 Albino and Snow Bullsnakes

I'm not sure of the ones you are talkin about but there is a true patternless northern pine that was collected in NJ a few years ago. It is in a private collection now and it appears to be a dominant trait. The last two years all the offspring from the animal have been patternless.
Hope it helps
Karl
-----
Boneyardreptiles.com

Karl (Boneyard),
Are you speaking of the patternless that was confiscated from a poacher a few years ago? If so, there was no positive info that it was truly a wild snake. Correct me if I am wrong. The poacher never admitted to it according to NJFW.
If it is a different one, then well.....not wise to speak about a poached snake here since pine snakes are illegal to collect in NJ and have been for more than "a few years."

Yes, that would be the one that I'm talkin about - I believe it was in Lakehurst NJ.
I was not there at the time I do not know what the poacher admitted to or what the story was other than what I was told by the person who has the animal.
The animal is question appears to be a dominant morph which would make it different than the recessive patternless southern pines out there so I'm pretty sure you can rule out a cross unless there is a dominant patternless trait out there I'm not aware of.
-----
Boneyardreptiles.com

Ok, cool. Just curious though....did NJFW give the snake away or something? I thought it was still in NJ unless the person you are speaking of is in NJ. I am just curious how he managed to get a hold of it from NJFW.

The patternless from NJ is from the lakehurst area and is a male.
NJDFW used to give animals to qualified persons/institutions. Hope Zoological often took animals in for the state until we relocated out of state. we were the only licensed Venomous and Crocdilian dealer in the state for 4 years.
To my knowledge the state still transfers animals to licensed scientific holding permit holders in state as well as to out of state sources. This is routine.
I've personally picked up animals from south, central, and northern region offices as well as helped identifiy 100s of animals for the NJDFW Exotic permit dept.
They used to have a huge blackmarket problem and actively policed it with their NJDFW Bureau of Law Enforcement SIU "Special Investigations Unit"
The Patternless male is real i've seen it first hand, with the legal transfer papers from the state.
It is a legal animal and has been bred succesfully for about 3 years limit offspring have been made available to the public. It does appear to be a dominant trait.

"The patternless from NJ is from the lakehurst area and is a male.
NJDFW used to give animals to qualified persons/institutions. Hope Zoological often took animals in for the state until we relocated out of state. we were the only licensed Venomous and Crocdilian dealer in the state for 4 years.
To my knowledge the state still transfers animals to licensed scientific holding permit holders in state as well as to out of state sources. This is routine.
I've personally picked up animals from south, central, and northern region offices as well as helped identifiy 100s of animals for the NJDFW Exotic permit dept.
They used to have a huge blackmarket problem and actively policed it with their NJDFW Bureau of Law Enforcement SIU "Special Investigations Unit"
The Patternless male is real i've seen it first hand, with the legal transfer papers from the state.
It is a legal animal and has been bred succesfully for about 3 years limit offspring have been made available to the public. It does appear to be a dominant trait."

Well, you certainly know all the key words....you the one who relocated to CA now? If so, we almost worked together (wink, wink)
-----
--Brian Scott

LOL Yes I'm the one.
The big boss was a new Capt before I became a west coast ghost.
I hung up my snake hook, just deal with primates these days.
Though I still dabble with crotalids. Though I dont have 63 different species like I used too.
Dont think we would have worked together I don't like getting wet. Hahahaha

"LOL Yes I'm the one.
The big boss was a new Capt before I became a west coast ghost.
I hung up my snake hook, just deal with primates these days.
Though I still dabble with crotalids. Though I dont have 63 different species like I used too.
Dont think we would have worked together I don't like getting wet. Hahahaha"
Ahhhh, gotcha. I hear ya. Ok, well cool to get to know--even if only through the Internet. I have heard a lot about you. All good stuff.
Primates? Geez...they are just food for bigger snakes (wink, wink....j/k). Primates are really fascinating critters.....especially those little lemurs from Madagascar. Cute little buggers
Please stay in touch....pinesnakepiney@gmail.com
Cheers,
--Brian
-----
--Brian Scott

Had the same thoughts myself, especially if the bloodline is from the pine barrens. You'd think the loss of saddles or pattern would produce an animal white or ash color, if a pure northern from that part of the range.

jserro,
Nice classic northern there!! Male or female??

not sure, pic was taken when it was a yearling. I have a pair, that look identical and are monsters now.

Hello All,
For more information on Patternless Northern Pines check out the January 1995 issue of Reptiles Magazine. Page 84 has an article "Patternless Northern Pine Snakes: A First? The Article is written by Michael Ray and details his experience with these. I personally have a small group of what I believe to be pure northerns that are Patternless and patternless hets. I also have a Patternless albino from the same line . I posted pics of them a while back.

Take care,
Jeff Port